[BUG] Why, unlike EnvO are Elevation (a length) and Depression (a geometrical object) conceptualized very differently in SWEET?

[Garybc]

A bug report assumes that you are not trying to introduced a new feature, but instead change an existing one... hopefully correcting some latent error in the process.

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[dr-shorthair]

Elevation is strictly not a length, it is a coordinate. It is defined as an offset with respect to a vertical datum, a spheroid, approximating the Geoid which varies with lateral position.

[dvaranka]

The lowest point of a depression is an elevation as well and could be represented with a coordinate. A 'depression' is a geospatial feature that would include, I am guessing, other criteria for its definition as well (slope, size, etc). I think Gaurav uses the term 'eminence' as the antonym of 'depression.'

[Garybc]

So do we say that there is a Geometric Depression and geospatial feature called a Depression that is described, in part, by a Geometric Depression? Another characteristic of the geospatial feature's Geometric Depression is that it has an elevation coordinate. Gary Berg-Cross Potomac, MD 240-426-0770

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On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 5:16 PM Dalia Varanka ***@***.***> wrote: The lowest point of a depression is an elevation as well and could be represented with a coordinate. A 'depression' is a geospatial feature that would include, I am guessing, other criteria for its definition as well (slope, size, etc) — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#245 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACIMQIWI7HJDBD6XTV4VUO3UBZSZNANCNFSM4ZX6EUJA> . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS <https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

[dvaranka]

Yes, Gary, that is the way I would see it, and would believe is correct.

________________________________ From: Gary Berg-Cross ***@***.***> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 7:46 AM To: ESIPFed/sweet ***@***.***> Cc: Varanka, Dalia E ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ESIPFed/sweet] [BUG] Why, unlike EnvO are Elevation (a length) and Depression (a geometrical object) conceptualized very differently in SWEET? (#245) This email has been received from outside of DOI - Use caution before clicking on links, opening attachments, or responding. So do we say that there is a Geometric Depression and geospatial feature called a Depression that is described, in part, by a Geometric Depression? Another characteristic of the geospatial feature's Geometric Depression is that it has an elevation coordinate. Gary Berg-Cross Potomac, MD 240-426-0770

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 5:16 PM Dalia Varanka ***@***.***> wrote: The lowest point of a depression is an elevation as well and could be represented with a coordinate. A 'depression' is a geospatial feature that would include, I am guessing, other criteria for its definition as well (slope, size, etc) — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#245 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACIMQIWI7HJDBD6XTV4VUO3UBZSZNANCNFSM4ZX6EUJA> . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS <https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FESIPFed%2Fsweet%2Fissues%2F245%23issuecomment-919115294&data=04%7C01%7Cdvaranka%40usgs.gov%7Cb8c85821f0f64131a8c508d9777da5e8%7C0693b5ba4b184d7b9341f32f400a5494%7C0%7C0%7C637672203828016454%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dIUkFfGd9GhAAv8XJSm8d5fQdUd2d2oNfTuno5kI6pA%3D&reserved=0>, or unsubscribe<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FAEWS3RFJR3YWGRRCJXKT6VTUB47Y3ANCNFSM4ZX6EUJA&data=04%7C01%7Cdvaranka%40usgs.gov%7Cb8c85821f0f64131a8c508d9777da5e8%7C0693b5ba4b184d7b9341f32f400a5494%7C0%7C0%7C637672203828016454%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AzS6U9CQqpzzDX%2FxkIb1z%2Fvedn6P7QQwcQrP0cA0bRo%3D&reserved=0>. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.apple.com%2Fapp%2Fapple-store%2Fid1477376905%3Fct%3Dnotification-email%26mt%3D8%26pt%3D524675&data=04%7C01%7Cdvaranka%40usgs.gov%7Cb8c85821f0f64131a8c508d9777da5e8%7C0693b5ba4b184d7b9341f32f400a5494%7C0%7C0%7C637672203828026408%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=WzPkwnBNAU9O4UZkzqGss9tA6jYC45fadCFqsO33kzk%3D&reserved=0> or Android<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.github.android%26referrer%3Dutm_campaign%253Dnotification-email%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_source%253Dgithub&data=04%7C01%7Cdvaranka%40usgs.gov%7Cb8c85821f0f64131a8c508d9777da5e8%7C0693b5ba4b184d7b9341f32f400a5494%7C0%7C0%7C637672203828026408%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZrFf%2B1QBgDmMh61RFULIm3JFXXwYURGFq%2FWNDCeEDdU%3D&reserved=0>.

[rduerr]

If there are no other comments, I say we should make this change.

[Garybc]

Yes, I agree. Gary

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On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 5:23 PM rduerr ***@***.***> wrote: If there are no other comments, I say we should make this change. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#245 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACIMQIX4ZEKQVXHIY37YAOTW4IXMTANCNFSM4ZX6EUJA> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[smrgeoinfo]

looking at SWEET/depression in bioportal to try and understand what 'depression is supposed to be...

its a subclass of representation/numerical entity/geometrical object. The implication being that 'geometric object' is a representation of some geometry using numerical values. Then ... the subclasses of depression are 'basin' with a bunch of subclasses that are tectonic features-- kinds of sedimentary basins. The other subclass is 'depression' from the phenFluidDynamics namespace, a subclass of 'low pressure'-- which seems to me quite a different concept.

as @dr-shorthair pointed out, elevation is " an offset with respect to a vertical datum". In trying to understand 'depression' as a geometric object, it seems to require conceptualizing a surface that has an indentation in it, and that indentation ('depression') has some point of maximum offset relative to a datum defined by some relationship to the surface that is indented. You could think of that offset as an 'elevation' relative to the datum defined by the indented surface. So a depression in that sense has an 'elevation' property (although most would call it a depth).

Side bar about basin as a subclass of 'depression'
The kind of basin that has the enumerated subclasses in SWEET (a sedimentary basin) would have an older bounding surface that is a 'depression' relative to some datum-- something like sea level. But is a sedimentary basin this bounding surface, or the package of sediment deposited in the basin. Many active sedimentary basins have surface (physiographic) manifestations that are also 'depressions' in the topographic surface (think Basin and Range in the western US), but this is not a necessary property (think thrust belt foreland basins); inactive sedimentary basins in many cases are not manifested by a topographic 'depression' (Williston Basin, Michigan basin).

so... a geometrical object/depression might be a numerical representation of the geometry of the older bounding surface of a sedimentary basin. Sedimentary basins should not be subclasses of 'sweet:depression'. A similar line of reasoning would apply to meteorological atmospheric low-pressure 'depressions'