diff --git a/source/_people/addison-cameron-huff.md b/source/_people/addison-cameron-huff.md
index 3b6ff4b..64ed3ff 100644
--- a/source/_people/addison-cameron-huff.md
+++ b/source/_people/addison-cameron-huff.md
@@ -7,3 +7,16 @@ start: May 2014
social:
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/addisoncameronhuff/
---
+
+Addison Cameron-Huff was one of Ethereum's earliest lawyers during the project's Toronto phase.
+
+## Ethereum Canada
+
+Episode 16 adds Anthony Di Iorio's first-hand account of Huff's role. When Di Iorio created [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/) as a temporary Toronto legal vehicle in early 2014, he says he hired Addison Cameron-Huff as part of the effort to get the project organized and able to hire people.
+
+Di Iorio refers to Huff as his lawyer at the time and says he likes to think of him as "the first Ethereum lawyer we had."
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
+- [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/)
diff --git a/source/_people/amir-chetrit.md b/source/_people/amir-chetrit.md
index 3a88b51..044bb71 100644
--- a/source/_people/amir-chetrit.md
+++ b/source/_people/amir-chetrit.md
@@ -14,6 +14,16 @@ Amir was part of Ethereum's early business team alongside Charles Hoskinson, [Jo
> "Amir Chetrit, who is in Israel, he kind of did business development. He's a funny guy. I still see him every once in a while. Joe, my dad, and Anthony Di Iorio [were] the other business guys who probably had the most operating experience." — Kieren James-Lubin
+Episode 16 adds Di Iorio's view that Amir was not a peripheral figure in the earliest months. Di Iorio describes him as part of the initial five-person founder group with Vitalik, Mihai, Charles, and himself, before Gavin, Jeff, and Joe were added.
+
+## Miami and the Presale Delay
+
+The strongest new detail from Episode 16 is Di Iorio's claim that Amir played a decisive role in stopping Ethereum from launching too early after the January 2014 Miami conference.
+
+Di Iorio says the team initially expected to move immediately, but that Amir objected when it became clear the sale could raise far more than expected. In his telling, Amir was the one person in the room with the common sense to say they had to slow down, rethink the structure, and make sure the project was set up properly before taking in money.
+
+That account complicates the later narrative around Amir. Whatever frustrations developed afterward, Di Iorio credits him with helping avoid a legally reckless early launch.
+
## Questions About Contribution
As Ethereum's development progressed, some team members began questioning Amir's actual contributions. [Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/) recalled the growing frustration:
@@ -61,3 +71,4 @@ This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum interviews:
- [Episode 4](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/) with Taylor Gerring
- [Episode 5](/videos/episode005-anthony-d-onofrio/) with Anthony D'Onofrio
- [Episode 9](/videos/episode009-amir-taaki/) with Amir Taaki
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
diff --git a/source/_people/anthony-di-iorio.md b/source/_people/anthony-di-iorio.md
index 614f71d..e0c96bb 100644
--- a/source/_people/anthony-di-iorio.md
+++ b/source/_people/anthony-di-iorio.md
@@ -1,9 +1,10 @@
---
name: Anthony Di Iorio
-description: Ethereum co-Founder, Bitcoin Decentral founder
+description: Ethereum co-founder, Toronto Bitcoin meetup organizer, and Bitcoin Decentral founder
photo: /images/archive.org/ethereum.org/20140701165441/di-iorio-anthony.jpg
start: Dec 2013
end: Dec 2015
+interview: /videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/
social:
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonydiiorio1/
twitter: https://x.com/diiorioanthony
@@ -11,57 +12,91 @@ social:
wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Di_Iorio
---
-Anthony Di Iorio is an Ethereum co-founder who played a crucial role in the project's early organization and funding. He founded [Bitcoin Decentral](https://decentral.ca/), Toronto's first Bitcoin co-working space, and served as head of the Bitcoin Association of Canada. His vision was for Ethereum to be headquartered in Toronto, though the project ultimately moved to Switzerland.
+Anthony Di Iorio was one of Ethereum's earliest organizers, funders, and public-facing founders. Before Ethereum, he helped build Toronto's Bitcoin scene from scratch through the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup, the [Bitcoin Alliance of Canada](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/blockchain-association-canada-new-vision-beyond-bitcoin), wallet projects including Rush Wallet and KryptoKit, and [Bitcoin Decentral](https://decentral.ca/), the Toronto hub where Ethereum first operated.
-## Bitcoin Decentral and Early Bitcoin Involvement
+## Background
-Di Iorio established Bitcoin Decentral as Toronto's first co-working space dedicated to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency projects:
+In his own telling, Di Iorio's path to crypto began with two separate rabbit holes that converged in 2012: decades of interest in computers and decentralized technology, and a deep study of money, central banking, and Austrian economics following the 2008 financial crisis.
+
+He has described hearing about Bitcoin through [Free Talk Live](https://www.freetalklive.com/) in mid-2012 and feeling that he "got it right away." By then he had already sold Canadian real estate, was sitting on cash, and was looking for a technology aligned with the liberty-oriented worldview he had developed through studying Peter Schiff, monetary history, and the Free State movement.
+
+## Toronto Bitcoin Meetup
+
+When Di Iorio went looking for a Bitcoin community in Toronto in 2012, he found there effectively wasn't one, so he started it himself.
+
+His first meetup at Pauper's Pub in November 2012 drew only a handful of people, but it included [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/), [Peter Todd](/people/peter-todd/), and others who would remain important in the Canadian Bitcoin scene. The meetup later became a weekly fixture and grew into one of the main centers of Bitcoin activity in Toronto.
+
+This mattered for Ethereum because the meetup became the place where Di Iorio and Vitalik got to know each other in person over time, before the white paper and before the Ethereum team had taken shape.
+
+## Satoshi Circle and Funding Ethereum
+
+One of Di Iorio's first Bitcoin businesses was [Satoshi Circle](/people/steve-dakh/), a provably fair gambling product he built with Steve Dakh in early 2013. After launching it with a small cash investment, he later bought Dakh out and sold the business for thousands of bitcoin.
+
+In his own interview, Di Iorio says directly that this was the money that funded Ethereum's earliest bootstrapping:
+
+> "That's the actual money that funded Ethereum."
+
+That claim is one of the most important additions from his own episode, because it sharpens a point that earlier interviews only implied: before [Joe Lubin](/people/joe-lubin/) put in significant money, Di Iorio's Satoshi Circle proceeds helped keep the project alive.
+
+## Bitcoin Alliance and Wallet Projects
+
+In 2013, Di Iorio founded the [Bitcoin Alliance of Canada](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/blockchain-association-canada-new-vision-beyond-bitcoin), deliberately trying to avoid what he saw as the overly American and insufficiently decentralized structure of the Bitcoin Foundation. He built the alliance through national outreach, a public board-selection process, and active media and government engagement.
+
+At the same time, he was building Bitcoin wallet products. Rush Wallet led into KryptoKit, which later led into Jaxx. These products reflected Di Iorio's strong preference for non-custodial tools and low-friction interfaces. He has argued that wallets were the browser equivalent for crypto: the user-facing gateway through which ordinary people would interact with decentralized systems.
+
+Vitalik contributed to some of this wallet work, and Di Iorio's relationship with him deepened during this period through meetups, conferences, and Bitcoin Magazine interviews.
+
+## Bitcoin Decentral
+
+In late 2013, Di Iorio rented a commercial space near King and Spadina in Toronto and turned it into Bitcoin Decentral. It served at once as meetup venue, coworking space, media hub, startup office, and early Ethereum home base.
{% include video-embed.html
name="CoinTalk 013 - Bitcoin Decentral Launch Party!"
%}
-The space became a hub for multiple cryptocurrency projects, with Ethereum being just one of several initiatives operating out of the venue.
+The space housed KryptoKit, CoinTalk, the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup, Bitcoin Alliance activity, and Ethereum itself. It also hosted the first Canadian-made Bitcoin ATM from BitAccess.
-## The Miami House
+Bitcoin Decentral was where [Joseph Lubin](/people/joe-lubin/) first entered the Ethereum orbit. Di Iorio recalled that Lubin happened to attend the January 1, 2014 launch event while visiting Toronto for the holidays, was invited back by Vitalik, and then joined the group on the trip to Miami.
-In January 2014, Di Iorio organized the house in Miami that became the central gathering place for the Ethereum team during the Bitcoin conference where [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/) first publicly announced Ethereum.
+## Bringing the Team Together
-[Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/) recalled the significance of that gathering:
+Di Iorio's role in Ethereum's earliest months was not primarily as a protocol developer. It was organizational and connective. He provided money, space, introductions, and momentum.
-> "The house that Anthony Di Iorio had organized became kind of the hub and the central place where we all gathered around... That was the first time that I met and sat down with Vitalik." — Taylor Gerring
+By his own account, he showed the Ethereum white paper to Charles Hoskinson after deciding he wanted validation from someone he already knew through Bitcoin advocacy work. He also paid for [Gavin Wood](/people/gavin-wood/) to come to Miami after Vitalik told him there was a promising developer in the UK who could not afford the trip.
-
+He has consistently described the first core group as five people: himself, Vitalik, [Mihai Alisie](/people/mihai-alisie/), [Charles Hoskinson](/people/charles-hoskinson/), and [Amir Chetrit](/people/amir-chetrit/). Gavin, Joe, and [Jeff Wilcke](/people/jeff-wilcke/) were then added, bringing the founder count to eight.
-*(The Ethereum team in their Miami house rented by Anthony Di Iorio for the 2014 Bitcoin conference. Top row: [Dino Mark](/people/dino-mark/), [Yanislav Malahov](/people/yanislav-malahov/), Charles Hoskinson, [Anthony D'Onofrio](/people/anthony-d-onofrio/), [Steve Dakh](/people/steve-dakh/), [Wendell Davis](/people/wendell-davis/), [Jonathan Mohan](/people/jonathan-mohan/), [Joseph Lubin](/people/joe-lubin/), Louis Parker. Bottom row: [Gavin Wood](/people/gavin-wood/), [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/), Anthony Di Iorio, [Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/), [Jason Colby](/people/jason-colby/), [Kyle Kurbegovich](/people/kyle-kurbegovich/) - from [Taylor Gerring's photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/))*
+## Miami and the Toronto Vision
+
+In January 2014, Di Iorio rented the Miami house that became the physical gathering point for many early Ethereum contributors during the North American Bitcoin Conference where Vitalik first publicly announced Ethereum.
+
+[Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/) later described the importance of the house:
-The conference itself was a pivotal moment. Taylor described the scene after Vitalik's announcement:
+> "The house that Anthony Di Iorio had organized became kind of the hub and the central place where we all gathered around..." — Taylor Gerring
-> "That room was standing room only... afterwards the questions kept coming in and kept coming in and the organizers had to ask him to step outside and I just remember these photos of like him being mobbed by a group of people... I think Joe Lubin was standing right there. Probably Anthony Di Iorio was probably real close." — Taylor Gerring
+
+
+*(The Ethereum team in their Miami house rented by Anthony Di Iorio for the 2014 Bitcoin conference. Top row: [Dino Mark](/people/dino-mark/), [Yanislav Malahov](/people/yanislav-malahov/), Charles Hoskinson, [Anthony D'Onofrio](/people/anthony-d-onofrio/), [Steve Dakh](/people/steve-dakh/), [Wendell Davis](/people/wendell-davis/), [Jonathan Mohan](/people/jonathan-mohan/), [Joseph Lubin](/people/joe-lubin/), Louis Parker. Bottom row: [Gavin Wood](/people/gavin-wood/), [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/), Anthony Di Iorio, [Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/), [Jason Colby](/people/jason-colby/), [Kyle Kurbegovich](/people/kyle-kurbegovich/) - from [Taylor Gerring's photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/))*
*(Joe Lubin and Anthony Di Iorio can be seen next to Vitalik as the crowd encroaches - 26th January 2014. From [Taylor Gerring's photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/))*
-## Early Leadership Structure
-
-[Kieren James-Lubin](/people/kieren-james-lubin/) described the early Ethereum leadership structure, with Di Iorio as one of the key business figures:
+Di Iorio's expectation at that stage was that Ethereum would grow out of Toronto. In February 2014 he incorporated [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/), reflecting his belief that Ethereum development would be centered around Bitcoin Decentral and the Toronto team.
-> "Joe, my dad, and Anthony Di Iorio [were] the other business guys who probably had the most operating experience." — Kieren James-Lubin
+As Bob Summerwill later summarized:
-Along with [Joe Lubin](/people/joe-lubin/), Charles Hoskinson, and [Amir Chetrit](/people/amir-chetrit/), Di Iorio represented the business side of Ethereum's early team.
+> "His thought, I guess, was everything was going to happen out of Toronto, but that didn't happen." — Bob Summerwill
-## Ethereum Canada and the Toronto Vision
+## Delaying the Presale
-In February 2014, just days before everyone traveled to Zug, Di Iorio incorporated Ethereum Canada. As Bob Summerwill explained, his vision was for Ethereum development to be centered in Toronto:
+One of the most useful contributions from Di Iorio's own interview is his account of the planned early launch timeline. According to him, the team initially expected to move much faster after Miami, but pulled back when it became clear the amount raised could be far larger than they had anticipated.
-> "Anthony Di Iorio incorporated Ethereum Canada in February, actually, but it was about just a few days before everyone went to Zug. So his thought, I guess, was everything was going to happen out of Toronto, but that didn't happen." — Bob Summerwill
+He credits [Amir Chetrit](/people/amir-chetrit/) with forcing a pause and insists that delaying the sale until the legal structure was more thought through was essential. In his framing, a core tension of early 2014 was speed versus doing things properly: people needed money, but the team also needed to avoid building the project on a legally reckless foundation.
## Bitcoin Expo 2014
-In April 2014, Di Iorio organized the Bitcoin Expo in Toronto, which featured the only Ethereum exhibition booth ever at a conference. Bob Summerwill described the setup:
-
-> "Anthony Di Iorio running that, he'd got Bitcoin Decentral sort of co-working space and venue... He was the head of the Bitcoin Association of Canada. The Bitcoin Association were running the conference. Ethereum were the main sponsor for the conference." — Bob Summerwill
+In April 2014, Di Iorio organized [Bitcoin Expo 2014](/articles/bitcoin-expo/) in Toronto through the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. Ethereum was the main sponsor, and the event became one of the key public moments in the project's pre-launch history.
{% include content-embed.html
url="https://web.archive.org/web/20171124124825/http://bitcoinexpo.ca/"
@@ -76,24 +111,36 @@ In April 2014, Di Iorio organized the Bitcoin Expo in Toronto, which featured th
*(From [Taylor Gerring's photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/))*
-[Taylor Gerring](/people/taylor-gerring/) later observed in *The Cryptopians*: "So this is how marketing works. Throw an event so you have something to sponsor."
+Bob Summerwill described the arrangement this way:
+
+> "He'd got the space. He was the head of the Bitcoin Association of Canada. The Bitcoin Association were running the conference. Ethereum were the main sponsor for the conference." — Bob Summerwill
+
+Di Iorio himself said in Episode 16 that he considers Bitcoin Expo "the first Ethereum event."
+
+## Zug, the Red Wedding, and the Foundation
-Di Iorio's expectation was that Ethereum would be one of many projects operating out of Bitcoin Decentral:
+Di Iorio traveled to Switzerland in 2014 expecting to help formalize the legal structure that had been discussed by the founders. Instead, he became one of the central witnesses to the conflict later called the "Red Wedding."
-> "Anthony's thought and expectation was like, all of this is going to happen out of Toronto, right? Ethereum is just one of N projects that are happening out of Bitcoin Decentral there." — Bob Summerwill
+His own recollection emphasizes two things. First, he believed the project had originally been heading toward a for-profit structure before the decision shifted toward a non-profit foundation. Second, he saw the June 2014 rupture as the point at which the balance of power changed decisively away from the original business-oriented founders and toward a more development-led structure.
-## The Red Wedding and Foundation Formation
+He later said that both he and Joe Lubin "saw the writing on the wall" after that moment, even though both survived the immediate purge.
-Di Iorio traveled to Zug in June 2014 for what became known as the "Red Wedding" - the pivotal moment when the decision was made to form a non-profit foundation rather than a for-profit company. Bob Summerwill recounted:
+## Legacy
-> "The 'Red Wedding' was 3rd of June 2014... you had people coming, notably Anthony Di Iorio coming to Zug at that point to sign papers. It was to do with that EthSuisse legal entity. And then it was like, yep, no, we're not signing the papers, big mess." — Bob Summerwill
+Di Iorio's legacy in Ethereum is easiest to see in the physical and organizational infrastructure of the pre-foundation period. He built the Toronto scene in which Vitalik emerged, created the space where Ethereum first operated, brought key people together, paid for crucial early activity, and helped carry the project through the months before the sale.
+
+Even where later narratives focused more on protocol architects or Swiss legal entities, Di Iorio remained one of the people who made the project concrete in the world before it had funding, office structure, or institutional legitimacy.
## Primary Sources
-This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum interviews:
+This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum interviews and related materials:
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
- [Episode 1](/videos/episode001/) with Victor Wong, Kieren James-Lubin, and James Hormuzdiar
-- [Episode 4](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/) with Taylor Gerring
+- [Episode 4: Taylor Gerring](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/)
- [Episode 5](/videos/episode005-anthony-d-onofrio/) with Anthony D'Onofrio
-- [Episode 9](/videos/episode009-amir-taaki/) with Amir Taaki
-
-See also [Taylor Gerring's photos from 2014](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/) for visual documentation of this period.
+- [Episode 9: Amir Taaki](/videos/episode009-amir-taaki/)
+- [Episode 11: Ryan Taylor](/videos/episode011-ryan-taylor/)
+- [Bitcoin Expo 2014](/articles/bitcoin-expo/)
+- [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/)
+- [Taylor Gerring's photos from 2014](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/)
diff --git a/source/_people/charles-hoskinson.md b/source/_people/charles-hoskinson.md
index b13ca49..6575378 100644
--- a/source/_people/charles-hoskinson.md
+++ b/source/_people/charles-hoskinson.md
@@ -12,6 +12,12 @@ social:
Charles Hoskinson is one of the eight Ethereum co-founders who served as Ethereum's short-lived CEO during the project's formative months. He was removed from leadership during the "[Red Wedding](/articles/red-wedding/)" in June 2014 and later co-founded [IOHK](https://iohk.io/) (IO Global) and the Cardano blockchain.
+## Path to Ethereum
+
+Episode 16 adds Anthony Di Iorio's account of how Hoskinson entered the Ethereum project. Before introducing him to Vitalik, Di Iorio says he already knew Charles through overlapping Bitcoin advocacy work: Di Iorio was organizing in Canada, while Hoskinson was doing Bitcoin education work in the United States.
+
+When Vitalik showed Di Iorio the white paper in late 2013, Di Iorio says much of it went over his head, so he showed it to Hoskinson for validation. In Di Iorio's recollection, Hoskinson immediately recognized the significance of the idea and said, in effect, "this is it." Di Iorio explicitly frames that moment as how Charles got brought into the mix.
+
## Miami Conference
Charles was present at the Miami Bitcoin Conference on January 26, 2014, when [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/) first publicly announced Ethereum. He stayed at the house [Anthony Di Iorio](/people/anthony-di-iorio/) rented, appearing in the iconic team photo alongside Vitalik Buterin, Joe Lubin, Gavin Wood, Anthony Di Iorio and Taylor Gerring.
@@ -70,4 +76,5 @@ This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum sources:
- [Taylor Gerring Photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/)
- [Red Wedding](/articles/red-wedding/)
- [Episode 4](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/) with Taylor Gerring
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
- [The Cryptopians](/articles/the-cryptopians/) by Laura Shin
diff --git a/source/_people/dino-mark.md b/source/_people/dino-mark.md
index 433f44b..8c0569d 100644
--- a/source/_people/dino-mark.md
+++ b/source/_people/dino-mark.md
@@ -9,6 +9,23 @@ social:
Dino Mark was an early participant in the Ethereum community, involved from January 2014 during the project's pre-launch phase.
+## Toronto Bitcoin Scene
+
+Episode 16 pushes Dino's connection to the broader story back even earlier. Anthony Di Iorio says Dino Mark was present at his very first Toronto Bitcoin meetup in November 2012, alongside [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/) and [Peter Todd](/people/peter-todd/).
+
+That makes Dino part of the tiny initial Toronto Bitcoin circle out of which much of Ethereum's Canadian prehistory later emerged.
+
+## Miami House
+
+Dino also appears in the well-known Miami house photo from January 2014, placing him among the wider group physically present around Ethereum's first public announcement period.
+
+
+
## The DAO and Ethereum Governance
Dino Mark became notably known for co-authoring a paper in 2016 analyzing vulnerabilities in The DAO's smart contract code. Along with Vlad Zamfir and Emin Gün Sirer, he published "A Call for a Temporary Moratorium on The DAO" which warned of security issues before the June 2016 hack occurred. The paper identified several critical vulnerabilities and recommended that investors hold off from directing The DAO to invest in projects until the problems had been resolved.
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
+- [Taylor Gerring's photos from 2014](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/)
diff --git a/source/_people/gavin-wood.md b/source/_people/gavin-wood.md
index f9ccde5..3f52211 100644
--- a/source/_people/gavin-wood.md
+++ b/source/_people/gavin-wood.md
@@ -21,6 +21,12 @@ Gavin started building the C++ implementation of Ethereum just days after Christ
> "Various other people sort of joined in on the efforts in December, including Gav and Jeff who started the C++ and Go clients, respectively, at the very end—at the very end of December, kind of Christmas projects for them both." — Bob Summerwill
+## Miami
+
+Episode 16 adds Anthony Di Iorio's account of how Gavin got to the January 2014 Miami conference. According to Di Iorio, Vitalik told him there was a promising developer in the UK who could not afford the trip, and Di Iorio paid for Gavin's ticket.
+
+Di Iorio also recalls that Miami was the first time he met Gavin in person and describes him as the workhorse of the house. While others were socializing, Gavin was coding intensely and, in Di Iorio's telling, got the first proof of concept out there.
+
## The Yellow Paper
In April 2014, Gavin published the [Yellow Paper](/articles/yellow-paper/)—the formal mathematical specification of the Ethereum protocol. This document provided the rigorous technical foundation that enabled multiple independent implementations to achieve consensus.
@@ -90,3 +96,4 @@ This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum sources:
- [Episode 6](/videos/episode006-christoph-jentzsch/) with Christoph Jentzsch
- [Episode 7](/videos/episode007-jacob-czepluch/) with Jacob Czepluch
- [Episode 12](/videos/episode012-fabian-vogelsteller/) with Fabian Vogelsteller
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
diff --git a/source/_people/joe-lubin.md b/source/_people/joe-lubin.md
index 9a5a3e2..bf44254 100644
--- a/source/_people/joe-lubin.md
+++ b/source/_people/joe-lubin.md
@@ -9,3 +9,40 @@ social:
twitter: https://x.com/ethereumJoseph
wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lubin_(entrepreneur)
---
+
+Joe Lubin is one of Ethereum's eight co-founders and the later founder of [ConsenSys](/articles/consensys/). In Ethereum's earliest months, he was one of the senior business figures around the project and later became one of the key financial backers of the ecosystem.
+
+## Joining Ethereum
+
+Episode 16 adds a concrete origin story for Lubin's entry into Ethereum. According to [Anthony Di Iorio](/people/anthony-di-iorio/), Lubin attended the January 1, 2014 launch event for Bitcoin Decentral while visiting Toronto for the holidays. Vitalik invited him back to the space a few days later, and he soon joined the trip to Miami for Ethereum's first public announcement.
+
+Di Iorio described him as someone who had retired from Wall Street, had been living in Jamaica, and immediately seemed like "a really interesting guy" who connected well with the emerging team.
+
+## Miami and the Early Team
+
+Lubin stayed at the Miami house Di Iorio rented for the January 2014 Bitcoin conference. Taylor Gerring's photos place him at the center of the scene around Vitalik's first public Ethereum presentation.
+
+
+
+*(Joe Lubin and Anthony Di Iorio can be seen next to Vitalik as the crowd encroaches - 26th January 2014. From [Taylor Gerring's photos](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/))*
+
+Di Iorio also notes that Ethereum's very earliest bootstrap money came from his sale of Satoshi Circle, "before Joe Lubin put more money," placing Lubin in the next phase of early project funding.
+
+## Early Leadership
+
+[Kieren James-Lubin](/people/kieren-james-lubin/) later described the business side of early Ethereum this way:
+
+> "Joe, my dad, and Anthony Di Iorio [were] the other business guys who probably had the most operating experience." — Kieren James-Lubin
+
+During the June 2014 "[Red Wedding](/articles/red-wedding/)," Lubin was one of the founders Vitalik asked to continue in the post-shakeup leadership structure.
+
+## Later Work
+
+Lubin went on to found [ConsenSys](/articles/consensys/), which became the dominant commercial company in the Ethereum ecosystem for years and incubated or funded a large number of Ethereum-adjacent projects.
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 1](/videos/episode001/) with Victor Wong, Kieren James-Lubin, and James Hormuzdiar
+- [Episode 4](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/) with Taylor Gerring
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
+- [Taylor Gerring's photos from 2014](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/)
diff --git a/source/_people/mihai-alisie.md b/source/_people/mihai-alisie.md
index 5422d5c..86cb5ed 100644
--- a/source/_people/mihai-alisie.md
+++ b/source/_people/mihai-alisie.md
@@ -24,6 +24,12 @@ Before Ethereum, Mihai co-founded Bitcoin Magazine with Vitalik Buterin, establi
[Viktor Trón](/people/viktor-tron/) also met Mihai at an early London Ethereum meetup organized by [Stephan Tual](/people/stephan-tual/) in 2014.
+Anthony Di Iorio's interview adds that he viewed Mihai as part of the initial five-person founder group and thought of him primarily then as Vitalik's Bitcoin Magazine partner working remotely from Romania.
+
+## Remote Constraints
+
+Episode 16 also adds a practical detail about Mihai's early involvement: visa issues limited his travel. Di Iorio says Mihai could not attend the Miami conference and also could not make it to the Bitcoin Expo event in Canada, meaning that some of Ethereum's earliest in-person gatherings happened without one of its core co-founders physically present.
+
## Founding the Legal Entities
Mihai was instrumental in establishing Ethereum's Swiss legal structure:
@@ -94,3 +100,4 @@ This profile draws from multiple Early Days of Ethereum sources:
- [Crypto Valley](/articles/crypto-valley/)
- [Episode 4](/videos/episode004-taylor-gerring/) with Taylor Gerring
- [Episode 10](/videos/episode010-viktor-tron/) with Viktor Trón
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
diff --git a/source/_people/peter-todd.md b/source/_people/peter-todd.md
index a72096d..fa18853 100644
--- a/source/_people/peter-todd.md
+++ b/source/_people/peter-todd.md
@@ -14,6 +14,10 @@ Peter Todd is a Canadian software developer and applied cryptography consultant
Todd became involved in the cypherpunk community as a teenager, communicating with figures like Adam Back and Hal Finney. He became a Bitcoin Core contributor and was known for his work on transaction fee policies, replace-by-fee (RBF), and his advocacy for keeping Bitcoin's block size small during the scalability debates of 2015-2017.
+## Toronto Bitcoin Scene
+
+Episode 16 adds a small but useful detail to Todd's Canadian Bitcoin history. Anthony Di Iorio says Peter Todd was present at the very first Toronto Bitcoin meetup in November 2012, placing him inside the tiny early community from which Vitalik Buterin, Di Iorio, and other future Ethereum figures were already starting to intersect.
+
## OpenTimestamps
Todd created OpenTimestamps, an open-source project for creating provable timestamps using the Bitcoin blockchain. The system allows anyone to create a cryptographic proof that a piece of data existed at a certain point in time.
diff --git a/source/_people/richard-goldglass.md b/source/_people/richard-goldglass.md
index f0ccac9..8896c37 100644
--- a/source/_people/richard-goldglass.md
+++ b/source/_people/richard-goldglass.md
@@ -1,4 +1,19 @@
---
name: Richard Goldglass
+description: Early Ethereum operations and HR
photo: https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/v2/C4E03AQFCCEVtFOuJbw/profile-displayphoto-shrink_200_200/profile-displayphoto-shrink_200_200/0/1547650499142?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=L52U46UQQeKDxCheeGkyn7ggnBNbvGDhpQWq72K0-JI
+start: Feb 2014
---
+
+Richard Goldglass was, in Anthony Di Iorio's telling, the first HR hire associated with Ethereum's Toronto phase.
+
+## Ethereum Canada
+
+When Di Iorio incorporated [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/) in early 2014 as a temporary structure for hiring and organizing work, he says Goldglass was hired as "our first HR guy."
+
+That places Goldglass in the earliest operational layer around Ethereum, before the Swiss legal structure took over as the project's main institutional base.
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
+- [Ethereum Canada Inc.](/articles/ethereum-canada-inc/)
diff --git a/source/_people/steve-dakh.md b/source/_people/steve-dakh.md
index 125aa05..a864b01 100644
--- a/source/_people/steve-dakh.md
+++ b/source/_people/steve-dakh.md
@@ -11,6 +11,16 @@ social:
Steve Dakh was listed as a developer on the original Ethereum announcement, through his role at KryptoKit. He was one of the earliest people involved in the project.
+## Satoshi Circle
+
+Episode 16 adds substantial detail about Dakh's pre-Ethereum work with [Anthony Di Iorio](/people/anthony-di-iorio/). According to Di Iorio, Dakh posted on Reddit in late 2012 looking for someone with Bitcoin business ideas. Di Iorio replied, flew to New Jersey two days later, and the two quickly partnered on a provably fair gambling product called Satoshi Circle.
+
+Di Iorio later bought Dakh out and sold the business for thousands of bitcoin. He says the proceeds from that sale became the earliest bootstrap funding for Ethereum.
+
+## KryptoKit and Early Ethereum
+
+After Satoshi Circle, Dakh and Di Iorio moved into wallet infrastructure with Rush Wallet and then KryptoKit. This helps explain why Dakh appeared in Ethereum's earliest public materials: he was part of the Toronto cluster of wallet builders, meetup organizers, and Bitcoin Decentral collaborators around Di Iorio and Vitalik.
+
## Original BitcoinTalk Announcement
Steve was mentioned in the [original BitcoinTalk](https://web.archive.org/web/20140208053651/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.0) post in January 2014, although his role there was later [written out of history](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.0), along with many others:
@@ -18,3 +28,15 @@ Steve was mentioned in the [original BitcoinTalk](https://web.archive.org/web/20
*"Steve Dakh - Developer (KryptoKit)"*
KryptoKit was a Bitcoin wallet browser extension co-founded by Anthony Di Iorio. Steve's inclusion in the original announcement reflects the close ties between Ethereum's founding team and the KryptoKit/Bitcoin Decentral community in Toronto, where much of the early organizational work for Ethereum took place.
+
+## Miami House
+
+Dakh also appears in the well-known Miami house photo from January 2014, placing him physically inside Ethereum's earliest pre-launch circle.
+
+
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
+- [Taylor Gerring's photos from 2014](/articles/taylor-gerring-photos/)
+- [The Great Deletion](/articles/the-great-deletion/)
diff --git a/source/_people/william-mougayar.md b/source/_people/william-mougayar.md
index 3fa58ed..179f4e9 100644
--- a/source/_people/william-mougayar.md
+++ b/source/_people/william-mougayar.md
@@ -9,3 +9,18 @@ social:
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williammougayar
---
+William Mougayar was an early Ethereum advisor, writer, and one of the first outsiders to encounter the project in person.
+
+## Bitcoin Decentral
+
+Episode 16 adds a useful origin point for Mougayar's connection to Ethereum. Bob Summerwill notes there that the January 1, 2014 opening of Bitcoin Decentral was William's very first day around the project: the first day he met [Vitalik Buterin](/people/vitalik-buterin/) and the first day he began getting pulled into Ethereum's orbit.
+
+[Anthony Di Iorio](/people/anthony-di-iorio/) adds that the opening of William's later book begins with him walking up the steps of Bitcoin Decentral, underscoring how central that Toronto venue was to his first impression of Ethereum.
+
+## Later Role
+
+Mougayar became one of Ethereum's best-known early interpreters and communicators, helping explain the project's significance to a broader audience of entrepreneurs, investors, and developers.
+
+## Primary Sources
+
+- [Episode 16: Anthony Di Iorio](/videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio/)
diff --git a/source/_videos/cointalk-013-bitcoin-decentral.md b/source/_videos/cointalk-013-bitcoin-decentral.md
index f9d8afe..ee1fedc 100644
--- a/source/_videos/cointalk-013-bitcoin-decentral.md
+++ b/source/_videos/cointalk-013-bitcoin-decentral.md
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ BTC Address: 17oWC9koVAdcWnhVbnJthHofHCKkx1sn6L
**[00:05] Kyle Kurbegovich:** On January 1, 2014, Bitcoin Decentral launched. Bitcoin Decentral is Canada's first co-working space for Bitcoin and other disruptive technology innovations. What you're seeing now is the launch turnout from our January 1st event. Hundreds of people stopped by to check out the first Bitcoin ATM made exclusively in Canada and to get an opportunity in real time to trade fiat currency for Bitcoin and see how easy it is.
-So what is Bitcoin Decentral? Well, for starters, it's the new home of CryptoKit, Cointalk, and the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup, and working space for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, Ethereum, and many more projects to follow. Finally, Bitcoin Decentral will serve as the preparation space for the Bitcoin Expo 2014, In Cryptography We Trust, which is coming up in April. With over 5,500 square feet and four floors of space, Bitcoin Decentral's goal is to provide the location, services, and tools for disruptive technology innovation initiatives. It'll also provide a home to businesses that desire to be immersed in a space with people of like minds dedicated to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Let's take a closer look. Here's Anthony Di Iorio from the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada at Bitcoin Decentral.
+So what is Bitcoin Decentral? Well, for starters, it's the new home of KryptoKit, Cointalk, and the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup, and working space for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, Ethereum, and many more projects to follow. Finally, Bitcoin Decentral will serve as the preparation space for the Bitcoin Expo 2014, In Cryptography We Trust, which is coming up in April. With over 5,500 square feet and four floors of space, Bitcoin Decentral's goal is to provide the location, services, and tools for disruptive technology innovation initiatives. It'll also provide a home to businesses that desire to be immersed in a space with people of like minds dedicated to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Let's take a closer look. Here's Anthony Di Iorio from the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada at Bitcoin Decentral.
**[01:33] Anthony Di Iorio:** Welcome everybody. I'd appreciate if people could respond on meetup.com because we had like 50 people that said they were coming and we've got over 100 here right now. Meetup.com, go for Toronto Bitcoin and you can RSVP to the events and we come. But I think it's great that everybody's out here today.
@@ -41,7 +41,7 @@ So I want to introduce Abdul. The name that it's going by right now is Bit Acces
It's going to be the home for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, or office space for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, which is a national non-profit organization to promote Bitcoin and provide information for Bitcoin. It's going to be the home for the now called Bitcoin Decentral Toronto Meetup. That's a new name for our meetup group here which meets every single Wednesday. We do four different themed events a month.
-It's going to be home for a company that I just launched called CryptoKit, which is an extension for the Chrome browser which is a Bitcoin wallet, a secure messaging system, Bitcoin charts, Bitcoin prices, a Reddit feed, news feedback and what we believe is the easiest, fastest Bitcoin wallet to set up and easiest, fastest Bitcoin wallet to make Bitcoin payments with.
+It's going to be home for a company that I just launched called KryptoKit, which is an extension for the Chrome browser which is a Bitcoin wallet, a secure messaging system, Bitcoin charts, Bitcoin prices, a Reddit feed, news feedback and what we believe is the easiest, fastest Bitcoin wallet to set up and easiest, fastest Bitcoin wallet to make Bitcoin payments with.
It's also going to be the home to Cointalk, which is a project of Kyle over here and myself. He's the host of the show, this video podcast that we've started. We've got over 11 or 12 episodes. I want you to think of something like the Jon Stewart show is what our intention is to eventually be. It's going to be, we have some nice couches discussing cryptocurrencies, discussing Bitcoin, and he's an excellent host. He's doing a great job so far.
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@ So I'm Abdul. I am working on basically business development and kind of strateg
**[10:22] SPEAKER_02:** Yeah, he changed his phone. So this is like all orange, right? So basically I've heard girls and we've—
-**[10:27] Anthony Di Iorio:** We've got 50 stools coming here. We're going to bar stool and small little tables that'll be lining the walls in the future. And they're orange and white too. So it's gonna have the Bitcoin theme with our sign out there for Bitcoin Decentral. CryptoKit is also orange. So that's gonna be our—
+**[10:27] Anthony Di Iorio:** We've got 50 stools coming here. We're going to bar stool and small little tables that'll be lining the walls in the future. And they're orange and white too. So it's gonna have the Bitcoin theme with our sign out there for Bitcoin Decentral. KryptoKit is also orange. So that's gonna be our—
**[10:40] SPEAKER_02:** Yeah, so I thought the girls are the only one who matches. But you know, right. But anyway, this is a machine. Tonight it won't be doing a lot of transactions, right. If something messed up, these are two guys that you can get hold of. If everything goes good, you can give me a handshake.
@@ -127,7 +127,7 @@ So can I just see a show of hands of anybody that does want to use the machine o
It's, it's. So here we are at the end of the first Bitcoin Decentral meetup in Toronto. It's January 1st. This is a great New Year's present. We had the Bitcoin ATM launched today. We had a lineup down the wall there. And the latest people have just arrived now is Paul and Vinny who just announced to us that they've got engaged. And they first met at a Bitcoin event in Toronto when Michael Terpin of BitAngels was in town doing some talks. And they've since come to the meetups over the last few weeks. And I've got to know both of them. I sold Vinny her first bitcoins, and Paul, I think, helped her out to get her wallet set up and get things established. And I just found out today that they got engaged. So the last three weeks they've been on vacation.
-So, congrats on this for you guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. And fantastic job, Anthony, building up Bitcoin in Toronto. It's very exciting. And she's actually helped us out with CryptoKit as well. She's actually gone through the models and the way that we were portraying the customers, how to do the step by step and what to do, and she was integral in that as well. So she was very helpful. And Paul's been very helpful and volunteering his time for. He helped us with the alliance. He's helped out with the meetup. He's been, you know, amazing. And then you disappeared for three weeks. You're back now, and I hope you guys keep going full. So excellent.
+So, congrats on this for you guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. And fantastic job, Anthony, building up Bitcoin in Toronto. It's very exciting. And she's actually helped us out with KryptoKit as well. She's actually gone through the models and the way that we were portraying the customers, how to do the step by step and what to do, and she was integral in that as well. So she was very helpful. And Paul's been very helpful and volunteering his time for. He helped us with the alliance. He's helped out with the meetup. He's been, you know, amazing. And then you disappeared for three weeks. You're back now, and I hope you guys keep going full. So excellent.
**[17:59] SPEAKER_02:** Congratulations.
diff --git a/source/_videos/cointalk-015-btcmiami-debate.md b/source/_videos/cointalk-015-btcmiami-debate.md
index 5061801..0d9f372 100644
--- a/source/_videos/cointalk-015-btcmiami-debate.md
+++ b/source/_videos/cointalk-015-btcmiami-debate.md
@@ -98,7 +98,7 @@ We're going to go ahead and do an IPO style, fundraiser style, starting on Febru
**[24:42] SPEAKER_04:** Okay, that's a great question. So unfortunately, the infrastructure and technology to build a proper decentralized autonomous company, it's not quite where it needs to be yet. And especially not if you want to stick $25 million in it, right? You want a little bit of certainty behind this, so you have to do things the traditional way at least now. So what we're going to do is start an organization and a jurisdiction, most likely Canada, but it might be somewhere else. We're still in talks with lawyers about where the best place to do this is. And then we're going to be working with Kyle and a couple of other partners. And over a 12 to 24 month period, we're going to go ahead and convert that organization systematically, step by step, into a decentralized, autonomous entity or organization. And we'll produce a documentary and a manual and then we'll give it to the community and say, hey, pick Wikipedia, pick all these other guys, show them the merits of what we've been able to do here.
-In the meantime, we're very concerned about transparency. We have Anthony DiIorio with us and he's kind of set the gold standard for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. So we're going to submit to quarterly audits by independent accounting and we'll also have in house counsel and in house accounting with the organization. So we feel it's the best balance that we can provide today. And it's something that's productive because we can partner with everybody who's interested in DACs about this process to build.
+In the meantime, we're very concerned about transparency. We have Anthony Di Iorio with us and he's kind of set the gold standard for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. So we're going to submit to quarterly audits by independent accounting and we'll also have in house counsel and in house accounting with the organization. So we feel it's the best balance that we can provide today. And it's something that's productive because we can partner with everybody who's interested in DACs about this process to build.
**[25:51] SPEAKER_01:** DACs, let me stop you here. We got off a little bit and I know that I did it, but I want to talk about the fundraising model of these other two, then I want to come back and if I don't remember, remind me. I want to come back and we'll talk about jurisdiction on these, okay?
@@ -320,7 +320,7 @@ And so imagine a world where you don't need to have a job in the traditional sen
**[1:09:23] SPEAKER_01:** Okay, so two things here. One is, I would like to say that, you guys all have interesting propositions, but as I have said before, I think that Dogecoin is going to institute Turing complete scripting language in there. And I think that is totally much Turing mini complete. And I think that that's probably, that's going to make all of you guys irrelevant. Something all three of you had said. And it's cool because it makes things a little simpler here. But you've all used the term me and I and things like that. But you all have awesome teams. You guys all have great people that you're working with. So can we just take a minute and talk about the people that you guys work with that are helping build these projects? I can't be here. I run into this all the time. Right? So I am Jason King from Sean's Outpost. So people think that Sean's Outpost is Jason King, and that's not true. Sean's Outpost is a ton of people. Like, Jason King is not in Pensacola right now. And guess what? People are still getting fed right now. So let's talk about your team, if that's cool. If you guys should just take a minute, talk just about that.
-**[1:10:18] SPEAKER_04:** We've got a really wonderful team. So on the fiduciary members side, there's myself, Anthony DiIorio, who's the executive director of the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. He did Satoshi Circle. He does CryptoKit, which by the way is one of the most amazing applications you need to download. It's incredible. So he does CryptoKit. We obviously have Vitalik, who I guess has developed the reputation of some sort of android from the future, sent back in time to save us from the dystopian government. He's an amazing guy. I've heard that one. It's true. Yeah. Vitalik T1000. They're going to make a graphic novel.
+**[1:10:18] SPEAKER_04:** We've got a really wonderful team. So on the fiduciary members side, there's myself, Anthony Di Iorio, who's the executive director of the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. He did Satoshi Circle. He does KryptoKit, which by the way is one of the most amazing applications you need to download. It's incredible. So he does KryptoKit. We obviously have Vitalik, who I guess has developed the reputation of some sort of android from the future, sent back in time to save us from the dystopian government. He's an amazing guy. I've heard that one. It's true. Yeah. Vitalik T1000. They're going to make a graphic novel.
So Vitalik is absolutely amazing. And then we have Mihai. He works for Bitcoin Magazine. He does Egora. He's a really, really phenomenal person. And then kind of the ecosystem that we surround ourselves with. We have a really healthy balance of people. We have some quantitative analysts like Dr. Emmanuel Costa who worked for Goldman Sachs, he's running a hedge fund in Asia. And we have Joe Lubin, who also is helping us out on the financial side. They're actually studying how to implement clearinghouses and do everything you'd want to do on Wall Street, on Ethereum, to see if the scripting language is robust. We have some great marketing people like John Mohan who is really helping us build a community. We thought that was really important from day one to bring people in to interface with communities.
diff --git a/source/_videos/episode011-ryan-taylor.md b/source/_videos/episode011-ryan-taylor.md
index 2b243e1..2d18567 100644
--- a/source/_videos/episode011-ryan-taylor.md
+++ b/source/_videos/episode011-ryan-taylor.md
@@ -229,7 +229,7 @@ table_of_contents:
[[36:40]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkNq7Q2J2s4&t=2200s) **Ryan Taylor:** And [Kyle](/people/kyle-kurbegovich/) was working with [Di Iorio](/people/anthony-di-iorio/) and brought a lot of people in. Yeah, that was early 2014. You can see the names start to pile in. And a lot of that was coming from Anthony Di Iorio.
-[[36:50]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkNq7Q2J2s4&t=2210s) **Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, absolutely. Well, because the other thing as well, there's a video there which is the opening night of Decentral, of [Bitcoin Decentral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentral). So that was January 1, 2014, on a snowy day. You can see it was all snowy outside in Toronto. And that was like, hey, opening this co-working space. And these teams are based here. Which was like CryptoKit, CoinTalk, Ethereum with a weird text. It's like there was no logo or whatever. It's just very strange plain font. But also Bitcoin Alliance of Canada and saying, oh, and we're also hosting Bitcoin Expo coming up in April of that year. But the thought there was, Ethereum is going to be built out of Toronto.
+[[36:50]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkNq7Q2J2s4&t=2210s) **Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, absolutely. Well, because the other thing as well, there's a video there which is the opening night of Decentral, of [Bitcoin Decentral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentral). So that was January 1, 2014, on a snowy day. You can see it was all snowy outside in Toronto. And that was like, hey, opening this co-working space. And these teams are based here. Which was like KryptoKit, CoinTalk, Ethereum with a weird text. It's like there was no logo or whatever. It's just very strange plain font. But also Bitcoin Alliance of Canada and saying, oh, and we're also hosting Bitcoin Expo coming up in April of that year. But the thought there was, Ethereum is going to be built out of Toronto.
[[37:48]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkNq7Q2J2s4&t=2268s) **Ryan Taylor:** Right? Yeah, I can see how people could come to that conclusion because it was...
diff --git a/source/_videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio.md b/source/_videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio.md
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..990b71c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/source/_videos/episode016-anthony-di-iorio.md
@@ -0,0 +1,452 @@
+---
+title: "Early Days of Ethereum - Episode 16 - Anthony Di Iorio"
+date: 2026-05-16
+show: true
+guests: ["Anthony Di Iorio"]
+hosts: ["Bob Summerwill"]
+description: "Anthony Di Iorio traces his path from Austrian economics, Free Talk Live, and Toronto's first Bitcoin meetup to funding Ethereum with proceeds from Satoshi Circle. He discusses the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, Rush Wallet and CryptoKit, Bitcoin Decentral, bringing together Ethereum's early founders, the delayed presale, and the tensions that shaped the project's legal structure."
+img: /images/covers-for-conversations/episode016-anthony-di-iorio.png
+table_of_contents:
+ - link: "#introduction"
+ title: "Introduction"
+ - link: "#discovering-bitcoin-and-liberty"
+ title: "Discovering Bitcoin, Austrian economics, and liberty ideas"
+ - link: "#toronto-bitcoin-meetups"
+ title: "Toronto's first Bitcoin meetup and early community building"
+ - link: "#satoshi-circle-and-ethereum-funding"
+ title: "Satoshi Circle and the money that funded Ethereum"
+ - link: "#bitcoin-alliance-and-vitalik"
+ title: "The Bitcoin Alliance of Canada and getting to know Vitalik"
+ - link: "#atms-conferences-and-mining"
+ title: "ATMs, early conferences, and why he never mined"
+ - link: "#rush-wallet-cryptokit-and-jaxx"
+ title: "Rush Wallet, CryptoKit, and the road to Jaxx"
+ - link: "#bitcoin-decentral-and-the-first-atm"
+ title: "Bitcoin Decentral and Toronto's Bitcoin ATM"
+ - link: "#forming-the-early-ethereum-team"
+ title: "Forming the early Ethereum team"
+ - link: "#miami-launch-plans-and-presale-delay"
+ title: "Miami launch plans and delaying the presale"
+ - link: "#founders-fiduciary-members-and-the-red-wedding"
+ title: "Founders, fiduciary members, and the Red Wedding"
+ - link: "#ethereum-canada-switzerland-and-structure"
+ title: "Ethereum Canada, Switzerland, and early legal structure"
+ - link: "#bitcoin-expo-and-closing"
+ title: "Bitcoin Expo and closing reflections"
+---
+
+## Audio
+
+## Transcript
+
+
+
+Introduction
+
+**[12:27] Bob Summerwill:** So hello, I'm Bob Summerwill and this is Early Days of Ethereum. So today I'm delighted to have Anthony Di Iorio with us who is a co-founder of Ethereum, a very long time Bitcoin and blockchain advocate in Canada and especially in Toronto. We first met in 2015 when I had the pleasure of attending various of his meetups both in Bitcoin Decentral itself and at the Mars Discovery Center. And that was around the time of the launch of Ethereum. But yeah, delighted to have you, Anthony.
+
+**[13:08] Anthony Di Iorio:** Great to be here, Bob. We finally were able to connect and get this done. So it's good to be speaking with you.
+
+**[13:13] Bob Summerwill:** Absolutely. So yeah, I mean your Bitcoin and blockchain journey went back several years before that. And then prior to that you obviously had nearby interests. So how did it all start for you?
+
+Discovering Bitcoin, Austrian economics, and liberty ideas
+
+**[13:32] Anthony Di Iorio:** For Bitcoin, to me it was mid 2012 when I first heard about it. I'd like to say, and it's actually not many people, I think Andreas Antonopoulos says that there's not one person that basically says they got it right away. And I can actually say I think I got it right away. I have a history of computers going back to the early 80s when I got my first personal computer, on modems before the Internet and BBS boards and just always been that computer tech person, decentralized tech with file sharing, all that stuff through the early 2000s and went to school for business. In 2008 my brother asked me to really learn or suggested I really learn what money is. And I went down the rabbit hole of really learning about the history of money and what money is. And this was at the time when the US was struggling with the financial crisis and the housing crisis. And I started digging into Austrian School of Economics and this was kind of prompted through a gentleman named Peter Schiff. Economist, liberty activist, entrepreneur, freedom oriented gentleman that had a five day a week podcast that I would listen to religiously for 18 months. I think it's around 2010, 2011. And just couldn't get enough of hearing him and his journeys. This was through the Wall Street issues and I just learned so much from him about economics.
+
+And he was a gentleman that had a video that came, it was a viral video that said "Peter Schiff was right" and this was a video of him being laughed off the news stations, Fox News, CNBC before the housing crisis and the financial crisis happened. He was predicting what was going to happen and just people thinking how much of a fool he was. So this video that I saw once was all these clips of him just basically being right with everything but just holding his ground and stating what was coming. And I thought, he predicted this. This may be some guy that the contrarian mentality is something I really dug into and I've always been a freedom oriented person. Never like being told what to do, didn't like school. So I just got kind of my economics education in 2010, 2011. And it was at the time like, okay, this is great and he's all about freedom.
+
+And I said, I remember typing in Google one day "top freedom podcasts" and this show called Free Talk Live showed up and I didn't know what it was. And it ended up being a liberty freedom podcast out of New Hampshire that was originally from Florida and the owners of that, Ian and Mark, had moved to New Hampshire, taken their radio show that was initially in Florida and moved from a very unfree state to the freest state in the US as part of the Free State movement which was a project that relocated people. They had a contest and decided what was the freest state in the US and they decided New Hampshire. And then this influx of people committed to move to New Hampshire so that they could start influencing and start working there to spread freedom. And they moved over there from Florida.
+
+And the first episode that I listened to of their show, they mentioned Bitcoin. And mid 2012, I just lost 40%, 30% of my gold and silver kind of dabbling that I had done over the last number of months. And I had sold my property, I had a few properties that I sold, thinking that there was going to be an issue with the housing market in Canada like they had in the US. So I was sitting on this cash and heard about Bitcoin and I didn't know what it was. And that took me down that rabbit hole of Bitcoin and studying everything I could and getting on the Bitcoin Talk forums and just absorbing over the next few weeks and not sleeping. And I grasped it right away from my technology background and from just, it was like, and then my study of economics and leading up to, okay, this is great, but what do we do now? And there's an answer. There we go. There's the technology.
+
+So it really was something that aligned really well with me at the perfect time of my life because anything prior with the Internet and other things, that's when I was going through university when the Internet bubble happened. And I spent about 10 years accumulating entrepreneurial skills and business skills from 2000 to 2010. And I had a drilling company. I was doing geothermal drilling in 2008, 2009, and then figuring what I wanted to do and heard. This was a perfect timing, the perfect storm when I heard about Bitcoin. And of course you start looking to see if there's anything out there, people that you can start engaging with, and there wasn't in Toronto. There was nothing.
+
+Toronto's first Bitcoin meetup and early community building
+
+**[18:35] Bob Summerwill:** Right.
+
+**[18:35] Anthony Di Iorio:** And yeah, and I've been part of the Mises Institute meetup. I think it's a Mises meetup, so.
+
+**[18:41] Bob Summerwill:** Oh, right, right.
+
+**[18:43] Anthony Di Iorio:** So prior to that, I knew about meetup.com and I'd gone to a pub in Toronto called the Paupers Pub.
+
+**[18:50] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah.
+
+**[18:50] Anthony Di Iorio:** And I went to a few of these Mises meetups and I said, hey, why don't I start a meetup? And I posted it, I did it at Paupers Pub, the first one, and I posted it and said I'm interested in Bitcoin, looking for others that are interested in it. And I think it was eight of us. I think it's eight or nine. I can't remember the very first one, but that's when I first met Vitalik Buterin and he came to the very first meetup that I had in Toronto in 2012. And Peter Todd was there and Dino Mark. And this was the first community event for Bitcoin that happened in Toronto. And I think already Vancouver may have already had or Montreal maybe, Montreal had already the Embassy. I don't know if the Embassy was there at the time. But this was Toronto's first community event for Bitcoin and I set it up. And over the next weeks, months, years, that meetup turned into a weekly thing and I built that out.
+
+And over that year of 2012, early 2013, I put a post on Reddit actually end of 2012, or sorry, a gentleman put out a post on Reddit named Steve Dakh.
+
+**[20:00] Bob Summerwill:** Oh yeah, yeah.
+
+**[20:01] Anthony Di Iorio:** He put a post out saying, I'm a developer. I'm looking for someone with business ideas that's interested in Bitcoin. I responded, two days later I'm in New Jersey. Him and I got together, became partners and put out a Bitcoin gambling site called Satoshi Circle. So within like a couple days we had decided that we were going to work together. He was a developer. I put some funds in to get this Bitcoin visual gambling site off the ground, which was kind of like a visual representation of Satoshi Dice. So for those that don't know, Satoshi Dice, it was a provably fair gambling system where you would send from your wallet to an address to make a bet. And it was provably fair that the results were determined before the spin, before the actual thing happened. And if you won, you would get your money plus percentage return depending which address you sent your funds to. But there was no graphical interface or anything to it.
+
+So Steve and I decided to create a visual provably fair gaming system which had this roulette wheel and penguins and you would deposit into an instant address and then you would just press the button and it would spin around and if you won, you would get the funds sent back to your wallet, to your account. So we wanted to do something to make some money in Bitcoin to do some bigger things. That was always our plan. Let's do this now that we can then hopefully make some money and do something bigger. With that to really advance our enthusiasm and advance our work with what we saw was this amazing technology that allowed people to send value from one person to another anywhere in the world instantly. And the ethos was very much aligned with me. Everything that Bitcoin stands for and stood for. So it was something that I wanted to pursue and it was a great time. Perfect time for me to do this with my skill set and my business background. And it was a perfect opportunity there. So that was my first foray and first start into Bitcoin.
+
+Satoshi Circle and the money that funded Ethereum
+
+**[22:00] Bob Summerwill:** Right, right. So yeah, I was looking back for some dates and things for these. So for the 2012 Free Talk Live episode, I think it might have been an interview and sort of little panel that Roger Ver did at Porcfest 2012. So Porcfest, that's also kind of associated with the Free State project, right? Kind of overlapping people on that event.
+
+**[22:36] Anthony Di Iorio:** Well, let's see. The idea of porcupine is the idea of don't tread on us or we bite back. It's the porcupine is kind of the animal that's representative of the state. So yeah, it could have been that. But they also talked about Bitcoin quite a bit on the show. So.
+
+**[22:56] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, I mean, I was seeing the very first mention apparently was December 2010. And you'd mentioned Gavin Andresen as probably the first contact that that group had with Bitcoin. So when did you yourself first meet other bitcoiners like Roger and Erik Voorhees and others?
+
+**[23:29] Anthony Di Iorio:** So the meetup I started in late 2012. I think it was early 2013 that I went to the Liberty Forum in New Hampshire. I drove down there with a friend of mine down to Boston. He had some family down there. And we specifically went to go see the Liberty Forum, which is the other kind of big fest, big event aside from Porcfest, the other big event in New Hampshire or one of the other events in New Hampshire. So I specifically went down there to that event knowing there was a big Bitcoin part of that event with the merchants accepting Bitcoin. And it was a panel with Charlie Shrem, Roger Ver and Erik Voorhees. So I'm this nobody there. I've heard about them already and I'm just absorbing and just learning so much about this stuff. So that was my first kind of meeting with those three there. They wouldn't have remembered me from back then, but that was kind of my first effort to go outside of Toronto here and take the time to go to the US and to go to an event that was very themed very much around liberty, around Bitcoin. So that was kind of my first meeting. First big event that I did was early 2013 with that. So yeah, that would have been right when we were kind of getting Satoshi Circle off the ground.
+
+**[24:39] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. So I'm just looking. So apparently the day for your founding meetup was November 2012.
+
+**[24:49] Anthony Di Iorio:** That was my first meetup.
+
+**[24:51] Bob Summerwill:** First meetup.
+
+**[24:52] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yes.
+
+**[24:54] Bob Summerwill:** And then it looks like Liberty Forum was February 2013.
+
+**[25:01] Anthony Di Iorio:** That makes sense. That makes sense. Yep.
+
+**[25:06] Bob Summerwill:** And this is Steve, a Torontonian as well? Steve Dakh.
+
+**[25:11] Anthony Di Iorio:** No, as I mentioned, I flew down to New Jersey where he lived. He lived in New Jersey. So I flew down to his house and just didn't know this guy. Two days before I flew down. While we were there, we hammered out this game and it was launched in a couple days. And I think we made our money back. I think I put a $5,000 investment the first to get the thing off the ground and I think the first day we made that back. And then it was just a matter of the next few months just watching this game start to collect Bitcoin. And the ethos of Bitcoin with it being provably fair that every spin is provable, that the house is not cheating the player. But we had a house edge on there and it started accumulating. And I don't know if March, April, I ended up buying Steve out of it and ended up selling it. And I sold it for a few thousand Bitcoin there. So an investment of under $5,000 within a few months. Sold it for 3,000 Bitcoin when Bitcoin was at 100 bucks. So I sold for, I think it was about $300,000 at the time.
+
+And I have to say, that's the actual money that funded Ethereum. That literally was the funding money that ended up going into the early days of funding Ethereum before Joe Lubin put more money. And that was the initial bootstrapping that we did was came from the sale of me selling Satoshi Circle.
+
+The Bitcoin Alliance of Canada and getting to know Vitalik
+
+**[26:39] Bob Summerwill:** Right. And I'm just looking again at some further dates. So in April of that year of 2013, you founded the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. So what was the thinking there? So I mean the Bitcoin Foundation predated that. But you were looking to do something rather different, right?
+
+**[27:03] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, definitely. It was, I'd gone down to the Bitcoin Foundation conference in Miami, I think it was in Miami. And when they had, when they announced the first, the first, I think the first ATM maybe or Robocoin was there or that was when the first ASIC was announced or came out, something like that. But the Bitcoin Foundation for those, I guess that maybe don't know, back then was kind of this industry organization that was American focused, that was setting up to represent Bitcoin and it was getting a lot of flack for being very American centric. Let me just turn my light back on here. For being American centric. And I around that time wanted to start expanding out and becoming a, or started to lead a bigger charge in Canada for advocacy of Bitcoin.
+
+And I took the lead from the Foundation there to create this Canadian kind of advocacy organization called the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada. And I did it by, I learned from what they did. What the Bitcoin Foundation, what I was seeing was their kind of mistakes with how it became this American centric organization and the rest of the world was kind of like, yeah, kind of typical here, the way that this was done. This doesn't sound very decentralized. So the ethos wasn't really shining through of what the Bitcoin Foundation did.
+
+And I decided to do some things a bit differently. And I put out a press release across Canada stating who I was, my interest in Bitcoin and what I was looking to do was to create an organization that was going to help evangelize Bitcoin with media, with government. And I was looking for like-minded people to join me and if you're interested to send me an email or phone me up and let's start a conversation. So it was kind of my way to expand out of Toronto to do something more nationally. And I did a couple press releases and this was more about just kind of seeing who's interested. And a number of people called me, reached out, I started having conversations with all different provinces. And at a time I said let's get this going.
+
+And I put another press release stating that I want to start a board of directors. I want to establish an organization, and I'd like it to be fairly represented and done in a fair way. So I put out a press release stating, if you're interested in being on the board, let me know. If you're interested in being on the panel that decides who's on the board, let me know. But you can't be both. So I created this kind of separated panel of people that could decide who was on the board. And I created this opportunity for people to submit applications to be on the board. And I myself submitted an application. I think there were 15 or 20 applications came in. Something, I don't remember exact number, but people also said, I'll be the judges or I'll be part of this voting committee. So the applications came in, they were passed to the voting committee. The voting committee decided the board, the voting committee disbanded, and the board was there.
+
+So that's how I did things kind of again, to align with removing any type of situation where someone can say that didn't happen fairly or it wasn't done right. And so I'm always trying to do that. I'm always trying to figure out ways that you can remove deficiencies from something and create something where you've covered all, you've checked all the boxes and everything's been done in a way that you can kind of go back and say, well, I did this in the best way that I could to ensure that it's not going to have the deficiencies that potentially other things may have. So I learned from what the Bitcoin Foundation was feeling with how they set up, and I did it differently.
+
+And it led to this organization that had, I think it was, there were, I don't know if there were seven or eight board members from six different provinces, I believe. And that I then was elected by the board to be the executive director of the organization. And I spent the next number of months kind of traveling the world, representing Canada and kind of continuing now to expand nationally, internationally with my presence of evangelizing Canada's Bitcoin scene and other things. So I started local, expanded national, and then started traveling the world.
+
+And along the way I was seeing Vitalik, who had also dropped out of university. He had dropped out of university. At the time, he was traveling around the world working on this and exploring different various Bitcoin projects and initiatives. So I would run into him at different conferences. Like I ran into him in Mo Levin's event in Amsterdam and in a number of other. He was coming to the meetups and I would. So we kind of just got to know each other and he was starting to work on my wallet company, CryptoKit and Rush Wallet, helping me out with that. So I just kind of got to know this kid over the next number of months. And seeing his progression from the first meetup, he was barely shy enough to say a word. Like he really was very, very timid and reserved and almost like just very, very. And then to see him months later on stage in Amsterdam and he had been writing a lot on Bitcoin Magazine at the time and progressing his writing skills. And I just saw him kind of starting to flourish into the speaker, into the things.
+
+And I always felt he was very responsible and he would always be on time for his meetings. And he ended up doing, I think a three part series on me for Bitcoin Magazine. And I remember him interviewing me in Amsterdam and talking about what I was doing with the Bitcoin Alliance in Canada. I just got to know him and respected him and felt he was a very smart kid and getting to be a good writer. And we just kind of built up a relationship over the months. And I think me having the meetup as a place where he could also be coming down and getting together and meeting people like Peter Todd and others that were at the first meetup and subsequent meetups and taking this group from eight people to thousands of members and doing eventually weekly meetups. And yeah, that was kind of what was happening there in 2013.
+
+ATMs, early conferences, and why he never mined
+
+**[33:23] Bob Summerwill:** I was just looking at some more dates, keep looking at these dates. So it looks like there was maybe a tiny little bit of stuff going on in Vancouver prior, but not a great deal until the first Bitcoin ATM which was in October 2013.
+
+**[33:43] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, Waves Cafe.
+
+**[33:46] Bob Summerwill:** Cafe.
+
+**[33:48] Anthony Di Iorio:** I think it was Robocoin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+**[33:50] Bob Summerwill:** And then you had Bitcoiniacs. That was a group sort of operation.
+
+**[33:55] Anthony Di Iorio:** They did it. That's right. And I like to say I think I had the second one in the world. I think I did.
+
+**[34:00] Bob Summerwill:** I think. Well, and what I do remember is you had the first Canadian made one.
+
+**[34:08] Anthony Di Iorio:** BitAccess boys. Yeah, yeah. And we'll talk a bit about more how that came about again to 2013, early 2014. But yeah, that was the Waves. The Vancouver guys were the first movers of that and the Robocoin. The Robocoin is what I saw down at the conference when I was down. I think it was my, was it Miami or, I think it was in Miami. Was it Miami down Orlando or Miami? The Bitcoin Foundation Conference.
+
+**[34:34] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, I couldn't find any specific.
+
+**[34:37] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, yeah. Probably just gonna search for Robocoin, Butterfly Labs.
+
+**[34:45] Bob Summerwill:** Right?
+
+**[34:46] Anthony Di Iorio:** That was actually an interesting story that why I never got into mining and I'll tell you that. Let's see if I can find this conference though. But Bitcoin Foundation, it was definitely in Florida. 2013. Robocoin.
+
+**[35:07] Bob Summerwill:** I mean that must have been prior to the North American Bitcoin Conference. Mo's event. It must have been.
+
+**[35:15] Anthony Di Iorio:** This is the Bitcoin Miami Airport Conference Center. Bitcoin conference in 2013 is a Vice article I'm looking at right here. Conference which took place at the Miami Airport Conference Center. Featured enough. No, wait a second, wait a second. Yeah, yeah, this is it. The Winklevoss twins were at the event. I remember that. I remember seeing them. This is 2013. No, no, that was Disrupt San Francisco. No, it was. This was the Bitcoin Foundation Conference. It was in, yeah, Miami, Orlando. I can't remember but it's when the first ASIC was actually, I think the realistic. This was not the Butterfly Labs. This was, this was.
+
+I remember them following around what's his name. Okay. So mining. When I first heard about Bitcoin in 2012 was right when Butterfly Labs was announcing their ASICs and doing their pre-orders. And for those that don't know, Butterfly Labs was a mining, initial mining hardware company that ended up scheming and scamming and using people's pre-orders. And they got charged. It was a big debacle. But I thank them for being the reason I never got into mining. And you might say thank you for, not again, I bought instead. My thing was always to buy rather than mining. I learned really early on there was this guy, I even forget his name for Butterfly Labs. Just being a real douchebag to people on the forums and this guy looked like a real jerk. And one of my friends, Ernest from Toronto who was also at the first meetup, who had showed me his mining rigs. This was right when I first found out about Bitcoin. He actually sold me my first Bitcoin for like nine bucks or something like that I think. And he was just, I went to his office and he had his mining rig. I had no idea what mining rigs look like. And he told me what he was doing with Butterfly. He was buying these machines from them. And I went online and I started seeing Jordan. Was it Jordan from Butterfly Labs? But this guy's such a douche. And because of him I'm like, I'm not buying from them. This guy looks like such a jerk. Why would I do that? And because of that and what happened with Butterfly Labs is I never ever did any mining. I've never mined in my life. And that kind of, and instead I bought. I bought instead rather than mining. I never, I always thought the mining was this arms race thing that I could never. And I saw so many people losing their shirts and the guys I think in Montreal got destroyed with the Embassy there. Like just, so that was kind of, never gotten into the mining side of things.
+
+**[37:49] Bob Summerwill:** But very, very competitive.
+
+**[37:53] Anthony Di Iorio:** Very much, very much so. Yeah, I'm trying to still find the. I remember the Winklevoss twins being at the conference at the Foundation conference. And I'm seeing here now the North American Bitcoin Conference. November. That was January 25th. That was Mo's. What was it, man? That's where we announced Ethereum was there.
+
+**[38:15] Bob Summerwill:** That's right.
+
+Rush Wallet, CryptoKit, and the road to Jaxx
+
+**[38:16] Anthony Di Iorio:** Don't want to jump. Yeah, but still 2013. Just sold the company, the gambling site. And then Steve and I realized we've got a wallet here. We've got, people are depositing funds into the game. We give them, we gave them a secret URL. That's how they would get into their account. We don't like passwords, we don't like logins. So our systems always worked with friction free. No account, you would get a secret URL. The URL would be your key to get into the gambling site and get to your account. We would give you a deposit address. You would send funds into a QR code instantly inside of the screen. You can probably pull up, if you look up Satoshi Circle, you'll see some images and you'll see some stuff from it.
+
+And we said, well, hey, we got a wallet here. Why don't we, at the time there was a wallet company that got hacked. Not Freewall. No. Oh, what was it called? It gotten hacked. And they were holding people's funds. And we said hey, let's make a wallet where you're not holding people's money. So that's what we did. We came up with a product called Rush Wallet and the idea of an instant Bitcoin wallet where you go to an address and you get a secret URL and you can create a thousand of them if you want. It's disposable if you want and you're not holding the keys. It's all client side. You could do it offline to get your keys and you could send the product. And we don't want to hold your money. That just goes against the ethos of the space and never want to hold people's money. So this wallet failing that was holding people's money, we said, why don't we do one that's not holding people's money and people can hold their own.
+
+So that's where we started building wallets. And wallets, of course is the equivalent for me of the browser for the Internet. Right. It's the interface that allows people to manage and move value. So we realized and understood this was going to be, you're going to have the time where wallets are going to be that interface that people are using and needing in order to navigate Bitcoin. So it kind of was equivalent to the browser, early days of the browsers. And we started building Bitcoin wallets and started, we were the first, I think Chrome extension Bitcoin wallet ever. In fact, Ledger used our app to build their first initial Chrome extension. They forked us.
+
+I remember being in Europe at the Bitcoin conference the next year, I think that they put on in Europe. And I remember going to the Ledger booth before, just when they were starting out the company. And I'm at the booth and they're showing me their wallet. I'm like, hey, that's my software. That's it. So they were using CryptoKit as the interface. I'm like, guys, that's not open source. But that was actually, we were, yeah.
+
+So we did a lot of firsts with CryptoKit. We were the first Litecoin wallet. We were the first Dash wallet. We were the first other wallets that didn't exist. And we were actually the first that got onto the Apple Store. So we actually were, if you recall, back then, Apple didn't, they didn't like wallets, they didn't like anything crypto and they were banning stuff and Chrome didn't do that. And we were on Chrome. And in fact what happened for us is Chrome ended up taking us down because there was a malicious copycat of ours that went on and they mistakenly took down our app. And we thought that Google now was banning just like Apple was banning. And we were so freaked out because people couldn't get access to their Bitcoin because even though they had their keys.
+
+**[41:57] Bob Summerwill:** Right.
+
+**[41:58] Anthony Di Iorio:** So I was traveling and I remember Vitalik jumped in and solved the problem and everybody got their stuff. And we realized we actually got communication by Google saying, no, we're sorry, we made a mistake. We didn't mean to take your app down. In fact, we love Bitcoin. They sent an email to me on that. So we went from thinking that they were also following in suit with what Apple did and they were removing us. But in fact, that was confirmation actually that Google was fine with what we were doing and what we were doing with Bitcoin.
+
+And then Apple eventually came on and we ended up having a good relationship with Apple. And any coin that we put into our wallet, they started accepting into the Apple Store. It was very interesting. They were using us as lead to start exploring adding crypto into their products. And they would message us and say, hey, we see that you've added this. Are you good with that? Because every other product was getting removed because they eventually let Bitcoin in, but then they were relying on us to start adding new coins into our wallets and then they would add them into their ecosystem to allow it to be on the Apple Store. So we had this relationship with Apple which was pretty interesting as well.
+
+**[43:02] Bob Summerwill:** Apple notoriously don't like anybody getting anywhere near their payment chokehold. Yeah, a very lucrative business for them, having 30% of all commerce. So.
+
+**[43:20] Anthony Di Iorio:** Right. Ripe for disruption when you're doing things like that, I tell you.
+
+**[43:23] Bob Summerwill:** Absolutely. But yeah, it's interesting that that browser route was kind of the workaround. So yeah, you were very busy in 2013. I was just again looking for some of these dates. And it looks like Rush Wallet actually started a little bit earlier than Satoshi Circle.
+
+**[43:43] Anthony Di Iorio:** No, no, it would. No, it definitely wouldn't have been out. No, no, definitely not. We didn't consider doing the wallets till after, what,
+
+**[43:59] Bob Summerwill:** 27th was apparently the first public announcement.
+
+**[44:04] Anthony Di Iorio:** Of what? Of which?
+
+**[44:05] Bob Summerwill:** Of Rush Wallet.
+
+**[44:06] Anthony Di Iorio:** Oh, but no, but no. Early 2013 was Satoshi Circle. So I started, we launched, yeah, so we launched. We started building in 2012, Satoshi Circle. We launched it a couple days later. And then I sold it a few months later and then started working on the wallets and started out with Rush Wallet and that Rush Wallet turned into CryptoKit, turned into Jaxx, turned into Jaxx eventually Jaxx Liberty after that. So that's.
+
+**[44:35] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. Yeah, that's your continuum. And then yeah, you'd mentioned Vitalik interviews with you. So it looks like that was October 2013. The Amsterdam conference had been in September where you mentioned him speaking. So that was.
+
+**[44:55] Anthony Di Iorio:** We met at a coffee shop. We met at a coffee shop in Amsterdam and he did his interview with me for, I think it was three articles that he put out. There were three, I think three series of articles for the.
+
+**[45:05] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah.
+
+**[45:05] Anthony Di Iorio:** What I was doing in Canada that he was interviewing me for, for a few articles that he put out. I think it was three that he put out because there was the Alliance that was talked about. There's a few things kind of like a Canada series I think that he did. And I remember sitting down with him in Amsterdam and doing that interview. Yeah.
+
+**[45:27] Bob Summerwill:** And his, so his famous Bitcoin world travel was I believe from about June through to December of that year. So he would have been out of Toronto for that period. And then it was November that he wrote the white paper.
+
+**[45:51] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah.
+
+**[45:52] Bob Summerwill:** So you were one of the very initial recipients there.
+
+**[45:56] Anthony Di Iorio:** I still think I was the first person he showed it to. Can't confirm. But I've always thought that. And I think that's the case. It was late November, late November, I believe. And, frank. Yeah. And I could be wrong with that. I've always thought that's been the case, so could be wrong with that.
+
+But I read it and have to be frank that a lot of it went over my head, which a lot of his writings did and a lot of his stuff with the formulas and all the things. It's nothing but it's like I need some validation here. And there was a gentleman that I'd been dealing with at the Bitcoin Foundation because I've been doing the kind of the stuff in Canada for the evangelizing and he was doing it in the US and we connected and became friends. And he saw what I was doing with the wallets and he really thought that what I was doing with the interface was really the thing that was needed. And this was Charles Hoskinson. So before I introduced him to Vitalik, I had been dealing with Charles for quite a while because of our paths crossing with our initiatives, our evangelizing initiatives. And as I was building products and doing things, always getting his validation and getting his thoughts.
+
+And so Vitalik shows me this paper, I show it to Charles. Charles, like this is it. And.
+
+**[47:23] Bob Summerwill:** Right.
+
+**[47:24] Anthony Di Iorio:** And that's how Charles kind of got into the mix with Ethereum.
+
+**[47:28] Bob Summerwill:** So his project there was called the Bitcoin Education Project.
+
+**[47:33] Anthony Di Iorio:** That's right. Bitcoin, yeah. He was on like Udemy, was on Udemy, I think.
+
+**[47:36] Bob Summerwill:** Oh, right, right. But I mean, I think so that was also 2013. I don't know that that went back into 2012, even maybe a little.
+
+**[47:44] Anthony Di Iorio:** No, no, I didn't meet him. It would have been 2013 that I met him. And he of course was part of Invictus with BitShares. Right, right. And he had been unceremoniously ousted by Dan Larimer from BitShares. He was I think also the CEO at the time. And then that didn't work out. So he'd already had his kind of exploration into something after Bitcoin and working on things like that. So Ethereum was right down his alley and that's how he got brought into the mix.
+
+Bitcoin Decentral and Toronto's Bitcoin ATM
+
+**[48:22] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, so it was late 2013 that Charles's time there ended. But Charles wasn't the only person that you brought into the Ethereum effort early there.
+
+**[48:42] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah. So what was going on then was meetups were getting really successful 2013. And I lived up in a place called Richmond Hill, which was about a 45 minute drive from Toronto and I'd be commuting down into the city to do the meetups. And it just, finally I got to get down to Toronto and I moved down to Toronto, downtown Toronto. And I started looking for a place to do the meetups because we're struggling to get, when you're doing these free events at a restaurant, they kind of got to give you access and it comes, it comes struggle to get sometimes the venues. And I just had this concept and idea to have a hub, a space for my meetups and to bring people together to have a physical location.
+
+So it was kind of the fourth quarter of 2013. Sometimes I moved down there and I, King and Spadina area right downtown core Toronto where my condo was, and I started looking for a commercial space that I could lease to turn it into a decentralized tech hub. And found this really old building at King and Spadina, just kind of kitty corner to where I lived and took out a lease for that. This was end of 2013 and that became Bitcoin Decentral.
+
+And Vitalik was coming down daily as we were setting it up, getting ready to launch. And the BitAccess guys from Ottawa, Haseeb and the guys, and oh geez, this team of the startup that called me up and said we heard what you're doing with Bitcoin Decentral, we'd love to have you, to give you the, to bring the first Bitcoin ATM. They started, they'd gotten together in some type of event and started to form a company and started to build the Bitcoin ATMs. And I said I'd love to do it. I bought their first machine and we installed it in Bitcoin Decentral.
+
+Launched January 1, 2014. I did a meetup and you'll find all kinds of newspaper articles about the Bitcoin ATM in Toronto and line up out the door of my space. And another gentleman happened to show up who had been in town visiting his parents over the Christmas holidays. And we met him and he seemed quite interesting and we invited him back. Vitalik invited him back to the space a couple days later and this turned out to be Joseph Lubin.
+
+And Joe had been living in Jamaica, manager for a Jamaican singer at the time I believe, and had I think retired off of Wall Street and just visiting Toronto. Had an interest in Bitcoin and thought he was a really interesting guy and we connected very well with the team. And at that event we invited him down to Miami to join us down in Miami for the conference. Come, we're going there, can you make it? And he decided to come. And we'll talk about I guess the Miami thing.
+
+But he was, it was the meetup that drew him in. That happened to be the same time he was in Toronto just over the Christmas holidays, the New Year holiday break that he came to that meetup. And that kind of opened the door for him. And that was the. So yeah, so Charles and then Joe. Yeah, that was kind of.
+
+**[52:09] Bob Summerwill:** So I found the video for that, the opening event. The video was archived. So that was fantastic. I found it a little while ago.
+
+**[52:18] Anthony Di Iorio:** Oh really? I don't think I've seen that, I didn't know it existed.
+
+**[52:21] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, it's great. So that was released through Coin Talk, which was Kyle, I can't say his surname. Kovagovich.
+
+**[52:32] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yes, yes. Yeah, Coin Talk. Like Coin Talk Live. Coin Talk.
+
+**[52:37] Bob Summerwill:** It was just called Coin Talk.
+
+**[52:39] Anthony Di Iorio:** Okay, that's right. Ours was Decentral Talk Live. That's right.
+
+**[52:43] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. So he seemed to focus more on events like reporting from events versus an ongoing piece. But yeah, there is a frame in that video where you can see Joe, just a glance past. Yeah. And I also found out just yesterday that William Mougayar, that was his very first day as well. That was the first day he met Vitalik and the first day that he started that.
+
+**[53:15] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, he. The start of his book actually. At the start of his book, William's book, it actually, I think the first part is about him going up the steps of Bitcoin Decentral at the meetup that I was doing. I think that's his Blockchain for Business. What was it called? Blockchain for Business.
+
+**[53:29] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, that's right.
+
+**[53:31] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, yeah. So that's, yeah. He mentions that when he meets Vitalik for the first time. It's at the meetup thing. So yeah, yeah. William was a heavy part of Decentral and Kyle was co-working I think out of Decentral, at Bitcoin Decentral, and a bunch of other people. It was kind of a, it became that kind of co-working space. My businesses were brought there and it became the first home of Ethereum. It's the first address. First home of Ethereum was Bitcoin Decentral and first company started.
+
+I started a, we needed to start hiring, doing things and you couldn't do without a business. And so I ended up, we agreed I'd start a for-profit entity in Toronto just to get something going and I started Ethereum Canada. I was a sole director of this just to be able to start doing some stuff and hired our first HR guy, Richard Goldglass, hired Addison Cameron-Huff who was my lawyer at the time, who I'd like to say became the first Ethereum lawyer we had. What was the other lawyer's name who did a lot of work for us? He did a lot of work. All my stuff for Satoshi Circle and for Rush. But yeah, it was, let's get this going. That was the office. That's where me and Vitalik were and the other guys.
+
+You got Mihai who was Vitalik's partner at Bitcoin Magazine working out of Romania. You had Charles out of Colorado, Amir Chetrit that Vitalik had gotten to know while working with the guys at Colored Coins. And that was the five. That was the initial five. Amir, Mihai, myself, Charles and Vitalik. And that started happening in December.
+
+
+
+**[55:25] Bob Summerwill:** For Mihai, presumably both Mihai and Amir, you'd met through Vitalik, but not in person at that point.
+
+**[55:36] Anthony Di Iorio:** I met Amir specifically, I met at the Inside Bitcoins in Las Vegas in 2013. That's right when we launched. That's right when we launched CryptoKit, I think that was. Right. That was. I had David Bailey beside me. That's where I first met David Bailey. I had him in a booth beside me for. He was, "Why Bitcoin" was his magazine and we met there. That's right when we were launching. I think it was CryptoKit back then in late 2013 is where I met. Was it Inside Bitcoins? It was in Vegas.
+
+**[56:17] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, at the MGM Grand.
+
+**[56:19] Anthony Di Iorio:** That's right. So that's right. I remember. That's right. I remember walking the streets with Amir. That's kind of the first in-person time that I met Amir. Mihai would have been much later. He couldn't even come to the conference in Canada because of his visa stuff. He couldn't get in. So it was much later after that I met Mihai. Wait a second. Yeah, Mihai couldn't.
+
+**[56:42] Bob Summerwill:** He didn't make Miami either.
+
+**[56:44] Anthony Di Iorio:** No, he didn't make Miami or like he just, yeah, there was restrictions with him in Romania there. So imagine, you're starting this foray with people you don't really know too well, from different backgrounds, different things in different countries, different ages. And I'd already known that I didn't want partners. I learned that, Steve and I always had this push pull kind of thing that I'd known, I come to the conclusion I really don't want to have partners. I know I did. But the opportunity sometimes presents itself that you're like, let's just do this thing and you do this thing. But it kind of has been that. How amazing has things transpired, but also how much of a nightmare it was back then.
+
+**[57:27] Bob Summerwill:** So you didn't want any partners, but you got seven.
+
+**[57:31] Anthony Di Iorio:** Well, we had five. I had four to start up initially. Right. So there's the initial five. All right. But yeah, well, and then of course what makes this very interesting is not just this, but you're also in this, navigating this area of being visible founders of this new technology. That's, because Satoshi wasn't visible. We, yeah, I'd always been very clear of, I wanted to be visible with my stuff. Even I think back then, I think my phone number was on Reddit that you could call me to talk about this. Like part of the ethos is also transparency, openness, all these other things. So you make that decision to be public, you got to do things the right way, you've got to set up company, you got to do these things.
+
+But then you also have this kind of pull of the decentralized ethos and other people don't understand these things. And this is kind of where a lot of debates were, would be within the team of making sure we weren't going to jail, making sure that we structured things properly. That was a real big endeavor that we did in the early 2014 was this. We had no money. We didn't want to be doing any VC thing. We wanted to keep, we didn't want VCs getting involved. We met with many. We didn't want to do that. I was bootstrapping. Nobody else had any money. People were being promised some future something for the work they were doing. We were starting to accumulate a team and money was a big, big, big challenge that we didn't have. But we wanted to keep that freedom and we didn't want to lose that out.
+
+So it was tough. And there was also then the battle between speed and doing things properly. So you have some people on one side, let's do this quick. Who cares about regulation? Who cares? Let's just do. And then the other side, you get the kind of the elders in the room. And at the time, I know Mihai was around the same age as Vitalik. Like they're younger. They were kids, right? And then, hell, even Charles, I had no idea he was 25.
+
+**[59:42] Bob Summerwill:** 25, 25.
+
+**[59:44] Anthony Di Iorio:** When I, and I didn't know for months and when I learned his age, he was always looking like a guy to me that was older. I was floored that he was 25. He just, so he was relatively young. I don't even know how old is Joe? I don't even know how old Joe is. You know how old Joe is?
+
+**[1:00:02] Bob Summerwill:** 60, maybe 62.
+
+**[1:00:04] Anthony Di Iorio:** Something like that. Is he. Can you. I'd like to know because I'm 50. I'm 50. So.
+
+**[1:00:18] Bob Summerwill:** So he's 61 at the moment. He was born in '64.
+
+**[1:00:23] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah. So Joe was the elder. Joe was the elder and Joe was the, you know, yes, there was always that tug between speed and proper. And there was no money. And the sooner we could do the product sale, sooner the money could come in. But we need to make sure that we could sell the product to the US. In order to do that, we needed to make sure our lawyers. So there was this whole process that we had to undertake to make sure that we got that sign off from our lawyers that what we were doing was not going to get us into trouble.
+
+And that was a big problem. To try to convince the people that weren't making any money, didn't have any money, that it was very important we do this properly and we don't do this and screw this up. That's going to come back to haunt us down the road. And that was a big challenge and that was one of the internal tensions throughout 2014.
+
+Miami launch plans and delaying the presale
+
+**[1:01:24] Bob Summerwill:** So something I only learned quite recently, having met Ryan Taylor who worked on the early websites, having worked with Vitalik and Mihai on Bitcoin Magazine, was that the version of the website which was up in January 2014, in the run up to the North American Bitcoin Conference, Vitalik's talk and the house that you'd paid for.
+
+**[1:01:55] Anthony Di Iorio:** Let me tell you. It was no mansion. It was a semi-detached. It was a split level home where the owner lived in the top. No, this was a very, very modest.
+
+**[1:02:07] Bob Summerwill:** Okay, home.
+
+**[1:02:08] Anthony Di Iorio:** So I just, yeah, that's. It was no mansion. But anyways, yes, it was a Bitcoin house. That was the, sorry, the Ethereum house in Miami that I rented for the conference. But yeah, Airbnb. But the website that.
+
+**[1:02:19] Bob Summerwill:** Was up at that time in January had got a countdown. The countdown was for the crowd sale that was meant to be on the 1st of February. That's what I understand.
+
+**[1:02:31] Anthony Di Iorio:** It was. This is what happened with that. So we go down to Miami, big announcement, got the house there. First time I'm meeting in person, Charles. First time I'm meeting this guy Gavin, who Vitalik had said, hey, there's this guy from the UK, can't afford to get a ticket. Can you buy him a ticket? And I said, well, is he. Yeah, he's okay. So I flew Gavin in, Gavin Wood. And this was kind of a, the get together, we were really planning on launching it there even. I don't think it was even waiting till February. The initial plan was to put it out immediately.
+
+And I gotta say, it would have been a wrong move to do it because what had happened was after the Vitalik talk and what we were hearing in our sources is that what we could collect and sell was going to be an astronomical amount that we weren't expecting. This is what happened. And if it wasn't for one person, Amir Chetrit, who had some common sense and said to the team, guys, there's no way we're doing this right now. Everybody else was drinking the Kool-Aid. Everybody else was saying, let's do this now. And Amir stepped in and said, no, the numbers are getting too nuts. This doesn't. We gotta step back and we put a halt on things. And that's when things kind of, okay, let's take a breath, figure this out properly. Let's jurisdiction shop, make sure that we're setting this up right. We can't do it in Canada. It's not set up properly. Let's go to Switzerland.
+
+And that was a really very important move that Amir did. I believe that was one of those things that, I don't know if anybody talks about that, but that was a smart, smart move to delay and prepare. Because who knows where Ethereum would have been if we had done something dumb back then to jump the gun and not prepare properly with what needed to be done to get this technology off the ground. And I think we did it properly. We delayed with a lot of pressure until our lawyers in the US gave us the structure and go ahead to do it. And when we got that thumbs up from our lawyers there, that's when we did it. And it was a very tumultuous time leading up to that with zero money and people knocking. It was tough, but I think that was a savior for us to do things in the right fashion.
+
+**[1:05:00] Bob Summerwill:** And that was absolutely last minute from what I can see, because there's an archive for the website with six days left. So it was literally like at the wire that it will have been pulled.
+
+**[1:05:13] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah.
+
+**[1:05:13] Bob Summerwill:** And Ryan was saying he got a phone call sort of like late at night, quick, panicked. Take it down. Stop.
+
+**[1:05:20] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, yeah.
+
+**[1:05:21] Bob Summerwill:** Remove the timer.
+
+**[1:05:23] Anthony Di Iorio:** That's right. But it was that. And I think it happened after the conference. I remember Amir's face and I remember him telling us, guys. So that was good. And then, yeah, the Miami house was a lot of fun. We had some, we had, Gavin worked his butt off the whole time there. He did nothing but work and code and got the first proof of concept out there. And he was a workhorse. While a lot of others were partying and doing some things, Gavin was the guy that was sitting there on his thing doing his stuff.
+
+And that's kind of the famous picture, one of the few pictures I've had. I've lost so much stuff. Like, I brought Kyle down to do the video. I paid him to film everything. I don't have that stuff. I have so little from back in the day. But I have that one photo that Gianni Dalerta took. I think Gianni took it. That one when we're on the couch there with myself and Charles and Joe and Vitalik. I don't know if, in the Miami house. But I don't, I have very, very, very little stuff and would love to see more stuff, but I have so little because even back then, even the mobile phones and moving the photos and stages, literally very, very little stuff, which is unfortunate.
+
+But there was some good times in the Miami. I remember Adam Levine doing Let's Talk Bitcoin in the back. I remember Charles and Dan Larimer doing a debate after a debate. I remember Dan Larimer and Vitalik getting swarmed after the announcement and then Dan Larimer coming up and having that conversation and little hijack. The hijacking. Yes, yes. Yeah. So yeah, a lot of good. The Miami event was pretty cool. And Steve was down there as well.
+
+**[1:07:10] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, yeah. So that discussion with Charles and Dan Larimer, and it was David Johnston was the other one on that panel who was talking about at the time.
+
+**[1:07:22] Anthony Di Iorio:** That's right. That was kind of the big things, right? That's what you had. You had BitShares, you had Mastercoin, you had Bitcoin. And then Ethereum comes along, right? Yeah.
+
+**[1:07:31] Bob Summerwill:** So yeah, that video has also been preserved, which is great. And there were some photos from the house there, from Taylor Gerring had taken some photos there and Steve had got one or two that he shared with me. But they weren't so great.
+
+**[1:07:49] Anthony Di Iorio:** You ever care to share stuff or, I'm hoping you're going to be putting all your stuff out somehow doing something with it. Would love to dig into what you have. And reciprocally, I've got so much stuff in terms of Slack, I mean Skype channel. So much stuff that I've put into things that I haven't gone through in such a long time. But it's cool sometimes to just look at my chat between me and Vitalik from 2012 to. And our FM forum, which was the Fiduciary Members group, which was the founders group.
+
+That's. So yes, what you had is you had the Fiduciary Members, which is the FM. That's the founders. And we had five. We agreed to add three more. We added Jeffrey, we added Gavin and added Joe and that was it. There was a decision there. We're not any more founders. That's eight. That's it. So that became that. But the channel in Skype and everything was being done through Skype at the time. Right. So we had all these different channels with all these different people helping out and different things. But the FM group was the Fiduciary Member group and that was the five and then the eight.
+
+And then when Charles and Amir were removed and Stefan and Taylor were added in, they became part of the leadership channel, but not the founder. They weren't the founders. They became part of the leadership. And Charles and Amir are always, to me, the founders. They're founders. No debating that. And I stick strong by saying there were five and then there were eight and that's it. Yeah. And people can understand sometimes they'll say something about, well, there's so many other people and this is just like. Yeah, but were you taking the legal risk? Were you putting in the capital? Were you, if someone's getting arrested, is that you or is that the people that have their names on the contracts, the names on the foundation or the names on the initial stuff. And we made that decision and the website backs up who the founders are. It's very clear on the, if you look back at the Wayback Machine, it's very clear who the progression of founders were and what other people's roles they had.
+
+So that's one of the things I'm a stickler for, for certain people that say that they're founders and aren't and weren't. And as you know, and you've said, I'm a stickler for accurate history.
+
+Founders, fiduciary members, and the Red Wedding
+
+**[1:10:07] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, yeah. I mean, same with the Fiduciary Members. Something pops into my mind there that maybe you can expand on a little bit is in the initial Bitcoin Talk post, it does talk about the fiduciary group. And then there was a large list of other people involved. Quite a long list there. But then that was changed around August where it basically chopped down the, well, it updated I guess with Charles and Amir etc. out of the way. But it also did not use the word fiduciary anymore. And I'm wondering, do you remember what happened there? Was it a fear? So are you using that word?
+
+**[1:10:57] Anthony Di Iorio:** Do you mean on the website?
+
+**[1:10:59] Bob Summerwill:** No, on the Bitcoin Talk announcement thread.
+
+**[1:11:02] Anthony Di Iorio:** Oh.
+
+**[1:11:03] Bob Summerwill:** So there was the announcement in January there. But then that page was updated around August.
+
+**[1:11:11] Anthony Di Iorio:** Okay, so my recollection really is the Fiduciary Members was kind of our name internal that was used on the Skype channel FM. I don't recall its relationship to the forums. And if we ever mentioned that stuff there, I, maybe we did. I'm saying, you're saying that we did. But why things would have changed afterwards when you're dealing with August, because that's when things changed. That's when the shift happened towards we've got money now, we don't need these guys and we're going in this direction right now, which is what happened at the Red Wedding. That kind of was the signal of what's changing here.
+
+And Joe saw the writing on the wall. I believe that he wasn't going to be there anymore. I saw the writing on the wall that my time was going to be limited, moving forward and change. And the cards were stacked in the other side with Taylor and Stefan joining in and the stalemate was no longer there. So that was kind of the, after that time, that's when things radically changed towards the development of the product, the setting up of things, the developer focused mentality and hey, it is what it is and it's led to some awesome things. So no regrets of anything there.
+
+But I saw the writing on the wall. I survived the Red Wedding, Joe survived the Red Wedding, but the writing was there that in the future things were going to be changing. And that's what happened. And it turned into a get the product out and Gavin took the helm with a lot of that. And we were the stewards and the stewards, I stayed on for quite a while still. I was still helping sort things out back in Switzerland. Going back and forth and doing things. And I think it was 2016 that I officially left. I think.
+
+Ethereum Canada, Switzerland, and early legal structure
+
+**[1:13:06] Bob Summerwill:** 2015. This is the date I think you had on LinkedIn. But yeah, I mean prior to the foundation there. So you'd mentioned Ethereum Canada. So I looked, so that was February 2014 that that started, which is very close to the same time that EthSuisse was formed by Mihai and I forget the name of the lawyer dude. So yeah, you had several months there of not-for-profit. You had these legal entities.
+
+**[1:13:42] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, well the reason, the only reason we did that was for speed. The only reason was for speed. And I was the only director for speed. It just was literally we needed an entity to be able to do stuff with. It was not anything meant to be long lasting and it wasn't meant to something to be a for. It was literally just like a holding thing that we could start doing, hiring people, start doing things and that was what you need to start up. So that was literally just a temporary, meant to be a temporary. It eventually got rolled into my other companies because it didn't, it ended up just being kind of a shell afterwards and I rolled that into my other entities when I formed and amalgamated my entities into Decentral.
+
+But it really didn't have any meaning down the road when everything got set up in Switzerland. But actually, no, actually it was supposed to be for the. Not Canada, Canada was literally just a shell of let's get set up and let's get things going. And then in Switzerland it was another one of the big debates, was are we going to go nonprofit or for profit. That was a massive debate that was happening in early 2014.
+
+And the decision was made to be a for-profit. The GmbH was agreed to. Yeah, it's what we were doing. And then we flew to Switzerland and that's when the coup happened. And yeah, we got there and we're told you're not here why you think you're here. We were there to sign documents. We created this entity. We had the formation documents. It was going to be signed by the eight founders. We all descended upon Zug to go sign that document. And then that's when the stuff went down and that's when it was determined that it was going to be a nonprofit.
+
+After from what came out of there, Vitalik determined it was going to be a nonprofit and I was not happy about that because I'd put a lot of money into this entity and I'd been promised certain things and this was not the deal. This was not what we had agreed on. But again no regrets and it is what it is. And who can deny what it's actually become. That's been the right path and I think it has. So.
+
+**[1:16:09] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, so Herbert Sterchi was the.
+
+**[1:16:15] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah.
+
+**[1:16:16] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. So he co-founded that or I guess helped Mihai with that.
+
+**[1:16:21] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah. You needed a local. There needed to be somebody that was local to be part of it. And that's where Herbert. The reason why Herbert was on there, I believe.
+
+**[1:16:33] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. And so yeah, looking, the Red Wedding was June 7th. And I guess that was probably the first time that all eight people were in the same place.
+
+**[1:16:52] Anthony Di Iorio:** Maybe. I don't. We were back and forth a few times there. I can't recall. I don't know. No, I don't, maybe. I can't say for certain. I've been there a few times already with other guys. I do have some photos of me and Gavin in there from previous events and stuff. So possibly. Yeah, yeah. We want to do it, Bob, do we want to do a second part sometime or continue this sometime? I think I got a hard, it's 5:30.
+
+**[1:17:18] Bob Summerwill:** Okay.
+
+**[1:17:19] Anthony Di Iorio:** I think I got a hard stop now.
+
+**[1:17:21] Bob Summerwill:** Okay. Can I just ask you one more thing?
+
+**[1:17:23] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, sure.
+
+**[1:17:24] Bob Summerwill:** Do we have time to talk about Bitcoin Expo?
+
+**[1:17:28] Anthony Di Iorio:** You want to do that now?
+
+**[1:17:30] Bob Summerwill:** If you have time just for a couple of minutes?
+
+**[1:17:32] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, certainly. Yeah, yeah, I think I can manage that. Yeah.
+
+Bitcoin Expo and closing reflections
+
+**[1:17:36] Bob Summerwill:** So that was April 2014 and again fairly soon after the Miami and another kind of drumbeat on the path and a big sort of coming out for Ethereum. Right. Who were the sponsors?
+
+**[1:17:55] Anthony Di Iorio:** What it was was for the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada we wanted to put on an event and it was sponsored by the Bitcoin Alliance event and I did it as a nonprofit and I funded it and I said this is going to be a nonprofit event that I want to do. And Ethereum became the lead sponsor and we got all kinds of other sponsors for this. So it was an event put on by the Alliance of Canada and it turned out to be an Ethereum kind of conference. It just was the timing and all the team came into Canada and that's where I did meet a lot of the guys for the first time. Rich, guys in from the UK, guys in from. Yeah, that was kind of the first time that we all got together and Mihai wasn't there, unfortunately. But that's, wait a second, wait a second. No, no, that was so Charles.
+
+**[1:18:38] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, he wasn't. Charles was there. I'm not sure if Gav came. No, Gav did. Yes.
+
+**[1:18:45] Anthony Di Iorio:** No, Gavin said no. I was getting my dates confused. Miami was the first time I met Charles in person and Gavin in person and then they were both also at the event as well. Yeah, I think it was maybe about 800 people at the Metro Toronto Convention Center for this. I think it was 800 people. And yeah, everybody met up at Bitcoin Decentral to start and we all walked to the conference afterwards and what a great, it was an amazing time. I got some great photos of that actually of the tables and the opening night. And so there's quite a bit from there that I have. But yeah, I definitely consider that was the first Ethereum event.
+
+**[1:19:28] Bob Summerwill:** And there was a hackathon as well. And there's a video that was.
+
+**[1:19:32] Anthony Di Iorio:** That was Dark Wallet. That was, so I also got some good, I got Amir in to come speak. Amir Taaki. I remember, I think that's when he just got arrested or something, does something from skipping the New York turnstiles or something. He jumped over something like this. But there was a hackathon and I think Russell Verbeaten was the person that put that on with me. Like he was part of our event, part of the thing and Dark Wallet. So Amir Taaki, I think won that Dark Wallet hackathon. I got some pictures from that too. I got a bunch of people. I should share my pictures with you. What I do have would give you those and show you them.
+
+**[1:20:10] Bob Summerwill:** That would be fantastic. But yeah, the video, the hackathon, there's so many people that you recognize in there.
+
+**[1:20:17] Anthony Di Iorio:** Is that public as well still? Is that video still online? Oh really?
+
+**[1:20:20] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah.
+
+**[1:20:20] Anthony Di Iorio:** Cool.
+
+**[1:20:21] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah, I can get you that.
+
+**[1:20:23] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, I tell you, if you could send me whatever you want, I'd love to take a trip down seeing things. So it's good that, I really appreciate that you're taking the time to accumulate all this and to do this work. It's a lot that needs to be brought together, and I had so much stuff that I don't have, and it'd really be nice to see everything being put together. So yeah.
+
+**[1:20:42] Bob Summerwill:** Yeah. And with Kyle, I'm still hoping to catch up with him. I'd reconstituted his Coin Talk website and saved what I can from that, but there's lots of audio recordings there. Some of the, some of the video was lost. But there's audio interviews, like a number of them from Inside Bitcoins from Miami in 2014 there as well. And the opening of Bitcoin Decentral as well, which is a key day. Okay, well, thanks so much for your time and yeah, I'd love to have a part two. We got quite far through, but it's a long story.
+
+**[1:21:30] Anthony Di Iorio:** Yeah, that's good, though. I appreciate the memories and thinking things through, so thanks for the conversation and yeah, I'd love to do another one too.
+
+**[1:21:37] Bob Summerwill:** Awesome. Okay, thanks, Anthony.
+
+**[1:21:39] Anthony Di Iorio:** Thanks, Bob. Okay, cheers. Bye.
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